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Old 04-01-2016, 06:39 AM
 
58,726 posts, read 26,998,537 times
Reputation: 14163

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Unions still do great work, they collectively bargain for wage increases and improved working conditions that never would happen without their influence.

And private sector unions did not decrease because workers found out how corrupt they were, that's absolute nonsense. Union membership has been decreasing because of the hollowing out of the manufacturing base, the fact that the government has enacted laws governing work place safety which the unions used to enforce, and flat wages which leaves employees with less income with which to pay union dues.
Everything you stated COULD be true but, NOT in ALL cases.

As I said I WAS in a union. In fact I was union Steward.

I also have been in management in the private sector and worked for Uncle Sam.

In EACH of my PERSONAL experiences I disagree with EVERYTHING you stated.

"And private sector unions did not decrease because workers found out how corrupt they were, that's absolute nonsense. Union membership has been decreasing because of the hollowing out of the manufacturing base,"

B.S. Unions started their decline in 1983and had NOTHING to do with manufacturing jobs leaving the country, and have gone steadily down since then.

American unions membership declines as public support fluctuates | Pew Research Center

The U.S. WAS the NO. 1 manufacturing country in the world until about 2013 or so.

We are STILL NO.2 in the world. THAT is a LOT of manufacturing jobs.

One of the biggest union membership losses was in the construction trades which I witnessed myself.

Don't get me wring, I am NOT against unions per say.

There are good unions and BAD unions.

Just as there are good companies to work for and BAD companies to work for.

Having worked for Uncle SAM IMO, public unions should NOT be allowed.

I could tell LOTS of union stories that have cost the taxpayer tens of thousands of dollars wastefully BECAUSE of the union.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:43 AM
 
58,726 posts, read 26,998,537 times
Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but it is up to the discretion of other unions as to whether they will or will not cross a picket line. It's a messy legal matter, but here's a quick summary from the NLRB


https://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-prote...ts-section-8b4


A secondary striking union can liable for a lawsuit by their customers and contractors. Members that honor a picket line (wildcat strike) that their union does not officially support could be liable for disciplinary action by their union. On the flipside, a person cannot be required to cross a picket line if they believe they could be physically harmed.
"I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but..."

I am fully aware of it.

The Teamsters holler for "unity" whenever THEY go on strike but, have no problem screwing other union workers.

"A secondary striking union..."

This WAS a UNION SANCTIONED strike so, you second point does NOT apply.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:32 PM
 
31,927 posts, read 14,919,300 times
Reputation: 13566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Everything you stated COULD be true but, NOT in ALL cases.

As I said I WAS in a union. In fact I was union Steward.

I also have been in management in the private sector and worked for Uncle Sam.

In EACH of my PERSONAL experiences I disagree with EVERYTHING you stated.

"And private sector unions did not decrease because workers found out how corrupt they were, that's absolute nonsense. Union membership has been decreasing because of the hollowing out of the manufacturing base,"

B.S. Unions started their decline in 1983and had NOTHING to do with manufacturing jobs leaving the country, and have gone steadily down since then.

American unions membership declines as public support fluctuates | Pew Research Center

The U.S. WAS the NO. 1 manufacturing country in the world until about 2013 or so.

We are STILL NO.2 in the world. THAT is a LOT of manufacturing jobs.

One of the biggest union membership losses was in the construction trades which I witnessed myself.

Don't get me wring, I am NOT against unions per say.

There are good unions and BAD unions.

Just as there are good companies to work for and BAD companies to work for.

Having worked for Uncle SAM IMO, public unions should NOT be allowed.

I could tell LOTS of union stories that have cost the taxpayer tens of thousands of dollars wastefully BECAUSE of the union.
Liuna is doing just fine. In fact more than fine, so I'm not sure what you witnessed
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Old 04-03-2016, 10:24 AM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,653,396 times
Reputation: 17362
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Unions have to represent all employees. If you file a grievance and it can't be resolved the union has to hire an attorney for you. Unions can't operate without dues paying members. Oh, and if your union isn't representing you properly then run for the board of directors, or volunteer to be a shop steward
Well here's a first clue to the fact of unions being a participant group and not simply a paid insurance policy. We have idiots that suppose a kind of purity of human organization, that's to say that they actually believe they won't have to really DO anything in order to have their interests looked after.

The average union complainer is usually the same guy who never makes the meetings, never takes part in anything his union is doing on his behalf, never stands up to the boss in situations that would call for it, and never spends a minute to read his own contract, instead, relying on the shop steward to interpret the contract relative to his complaining about the boss's treatment, of course he's smiling at the boss all the while.

One loudmouth complainer here insists upon telling his lame tale of union abuse, even after I had informed him that his take on things were not in anyway correct and that said abuse could not have happened as he related due to the restrictions on steward behavior spelled out in labor law.

We all know the facts of human frailty, greed, selfishness, deceitful behavior, all these attributes are found across all lines of people, the boss, the worker, the union leader, etc, NONE are exempt from this kind of behavior. We're speaking of human interaction here, not just as it pertains to labor issues but moreover, the fact that ALL organizations are made up of fallible men and not saints.

To think that we are ALL are this way because we endeavor in one of the mentioned capacities is simply to demonstrate one's ignorance. Many union contracts were negotiated with little rancor on either side, until the tide shifted in politics, then the gloves came off and the fight was on. Of course unions tried to support those in politics who in turn supported labor. But, unions, and most of labor began to see that the pols supported Wall Street, and courted labor's vote on empty promises.

There are good people in the world of company owners, and there a good many decent acting corporations, but unfortunately there are bad ones too, on the same token we see good unions and those that aren't so good, nothing positive can be said about labor relations without acknowledging the fact of our human frailty.

It is the stuff of that frailness that usually is worked out in the old tried and proven art of negotiating and that is all a union is needed for, without it you are playing cards with a much better player, and one that has much more to gain from your losses than anything he could voluntarily contribute to your well being. American manufacturing ran to those despotic nations that brutally attacked union organizers, not unlike the old American business response to the first unions.

Our own history of labor relations is a bloody one, and now we see an advocacy for thinking of unions as a needless construct due to the rise of? What? Honesty? The death of greed? The passing of mans selfishness? No we still need representation, as the world's labor force of the last twenty years has found out.

In this situation, American business became the partner in human misery and suffering that poverty level wages produced. To think that many companies wouldn't do to unions here, what they have succeeded doing across the planet is just plain silly reasoning---It's about LABOR LAWS, not the unions that provided them..Business continues to lobby for all kinds of laws that benefit their interest, why not labor?
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Old 04-03-2016, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,537,964 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Well here's a first clue to the fact of unions being a participant group and not simply a paid insurance policy.
I'm struggling to change this mentality in my own local. Plenty of closeted, and not so closeted republicans that seem to enjoy the irony of being part of a union while bashing it at the same time.
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:06 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,891,797 times
Reputation: 15934
As a Union member I thank the Lord Buddha for blessing Antonin Scalia by relieving him of his earthly suffering and speeding up the Judge's journey to Nirvana. Good Karma!
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,300,932 times
Reputation: 1654
Lets see here, have a Union and make $20/hr or NOT and make whatever the company wants to pay which would be close to minimum wage because you would have no choice.

If these GOP bigots had their way there would be NO minimum wage or safety standards.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:28 PM
 
Location: FL
20,702 posts, read 12,481,175 times
Reputation: 5452
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
What makes a place of employment a "union shop"?


If the owners of a place that has employees make the CHOICE to only hire union workers, I have no problem with that, but what about the places where the owners want to have the choice to hire a person who doesn't want to be in the union. Do you want to outlaw such a CHOICE?
If the person doesn't want to work in a union shop then they shouldn't apply. Simple.
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:37 PM
 
77,959 posts, read 60,134,595 times
Reputation: 49320
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Most labor that is unionized is in professions where management and consumers have different expectations. Unions are the buffer that allows labor to meet consumer’s expectation before the expectations of management.

Home depot doesn't have to give you any quality because management knows your experience at his competitors business will not be much different. Chambers of Commerce makes sure that they are not really competing with each other.

If you don't like a bus driver making $100G a year, then take your life in your own hands and use Uber. How would you like it if a bus driver sees you running for the bus, but management will fire him if he is three minutes of his schedule?

Schools are bad not because of teachers but because their management won't kick bad kids out of school and lose per pupil money.
Do you want an auto worker who sees something wrong or unsafe but don't stop the assembly line because they are afraid to lose their job?
1. I have zero issue with private unions. That's their business.

2. Schools are bad not because they don't want to lose per student money but because they are under political pressure over racism. There are several high-profile examples of this in the news lately. I'm not going to go off-topic about the merits of the claims.

3. MOST public unions I have no issue with....but I've lived in Chicago. If you are unaware of the litany of union offenses in that city then I can understand why you naively think that it's just a good thing for everyone with no possible negative consequences.
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Old 04-04-2016, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,545,824 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna-501 View Post
If the person doesn't want to work in a union shop then they shouldn't apply. Simple.
As hard as unionized shops are to find in most professions, it should be very easy to find a non-union shop to work in.
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