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You're voting against your own interests. Oh well.
This could conceivably be true if "my own self interest" was limited to "living in maximum personal comfort no matter how it affects other people." I've read all of Ayn Rand's books, and I do have a few libertarian sympathies, but all things considered, I am simply not convinced that pursuing my own selfish desires is always best for myself and/or for humanity. As I said in my earlier post back on page 6, I care about basic principles like fairness, justice, and compassion, and I am not convinced that no-holds-barred capitalism ultimately supports any of these principles.
And even if I were to purposefully pursue pure self-interested, I still would not be convinced that racial discrimination, etc., would be in my best interest, despite being a white male (and thus the supposed beneficiary of the traditions and policies that keep others from effectively competing against me for jobs, etc.). Even Ayn Rand would say that the best system is a system that allows everyone to compete fairly. Oppressed people are a source of social instability and are generally dangerous to public safety. It can be reasonably argued that even the most selfish-self-interest logically implies the wisdom of compassion for others, when self-interest is understood as being in the long run.
I, too, am a white male not affiliated with either party, but I generally end up voting liberal because, in most cases, they are by far the lesser of evils. Some policies related to racism go too far, as you indicate, but I don't think it is fair to say that liberal policy-makers, in general, are pushing for "equal results." I think their goal really is something closer to equal opportunity, but some policies overshoot the mark.
I always voted more liberal than conservative in the past as well, but this time I am not even going to bother voting because I do not see any candidate up there that is worth my vote. I voted for Obama FTR and I think he's done a decent job, way better than Bush, who I can't imagine why anyone would think he was a good president, ever did. Affirmative Action is a policy that overshoots the mark as you say. I think the issue of racism and sexism in America is very one-sided today, at least as portrayed by the media. It is very hard for a white male to openly speak of issues with women and blacks without being labeled "racist" or "sexist" among other derogatory things. It is what used to be called the "silent majority". People are afraid to speak the truth and voice their opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof
Also, I think it is easy to confuse efforts to measure progress with "goals" as such. If statistics don't show proportionate representation in various jobs, etc., then the belief is that "something is wrong" and in a lot of cases there really is something wrong. E.g. if 10% of the population is X, but only 1% of X have a well-paying job, or are in position of political power, etc. then this is taken as evidence that there is still some sort of discriminatory "ism" at work. Some of the efforts to fix this can seem like reverse discrimination, and sometimes it actually is reverse discrimination. The danger, though, is that these policies that are meant to correct a problem can go too far, or they can linger too long as a matter of social habit, etc.
Liberal thinking is prone to certain types of errors, but personally I think these errors are by far the lesser evils compared to the types of errors that right-wing folks are prone to making.
Why does there seem to be a disproportionate number of blacks in the prison system today? Blacks make up 13% of the national population, but 50% of the prison population. I studied history in college. The black community used to be the most family oriented culture, they all stuck together working on farms in the deep south. Then the liberal apologists up north decided that because whites owned them as slaves that it is OK for them to behave like savages and not have any responsibilities now. And their culture has been reduced to trash. Blacks are moving back south now because of their disappointment with opportunity in the north. It is very sad.
I...but this time I am not even going to bother voting because I do not see any candidate up there that is worth my vote.
I don't feel that way, but even if I did, I think there is one thing that would still propel me to the polls: I don't mind if either Bernie or Hillary appoint some Supreme Court justices, but I really, really, really, really, really don't want any of the Republicans making these appointments.
Also:
I'm not happy with the current "Obamacare" system, but I do think that some sort of universal health care is worth having. I don't want to see Republicans repealing everything.
I don't want to lose any ground on abortion options or gay rights.
I don't what to lose ground on efforts to transition from oil to alternative energies. The Democrats have not been impressive on this, but Republicans would be dramatically worse.
I really don't want to see Climate Change Denial or "creation science" become national standards. I don't think that decisions about what counts as science should be decided by politicians and/or conservative Christians. Peer-review isn't perfect, but it is better than blatantly political/religiously-guided "science".
This reply doesn't address the point I was making. My point was that the author of your link/researcher conveniently ignores my point that drives a truck through his assertion....that the two groups aren't comparable because by getting married....when there isn't any pressure to.....the married atheists have self selected into a group that is hyper committed. By the nature of the tenets of their beliefs, the 'other side' can't control for/counterbalance this discrepancy.
I don't have a dog in this hunt (I'm an agnostic who bible thumpers usually get angry with during discussions about faith). I'm not saying that social conservatives/bible thumpers/whatever you want to call them are devoid of hypocrisy, I'm just saying that your LINK doesn't prove your point because my point pokes a hole in what THE AUTHOR OF YOUR LINK is trying to convey.
The title of this thread is 'Why would any white male adult be a liberal'
While defending a liberal/progressive point of view, IMO, you have fallen into the trap that many liberals/progressives do by attacking who you perceive the opposition to be (illustrated in your post above) rather than defending your position on the merits of the position. One of the problems with that defense is that many people who criticize liberal/progressive positions aren't bible thumpers, aren't people of faith, thus aren't subject to religious/faith based specific hypocrisy, and are somewhere between (and including) a full libertarian stance and outright support of abortion, same sex relationships, and same sex marriage.
You've presented a wholly unconvincing argument. How are the groups not comparable? Either family intactness is desireable, or it's not. If it's desireable, then social conservatives would have to admit that their methods on how to attain it, which are based on religious convictions, are not grounded in reality, and are deeply flawed. You cannot wholesale prescribe a lifestyle for all Americans to strive for making the claim that "virtuousness," ostracizing gays and banning abortions leads to desireable outcomes when you don't have the pragmatic results to back any of those assertions up.
As for the rest of it, you clearly have some deep-seated personal need to assuage your own shame in your political affiliations (which is logical, given what they appear to be) to prove that you are not, in fact, socially conservative. However, I do not personally care what your social views are. I cannot address your "critique" of liberal/progressive positions because you have not offered any. All you've offered are character attacks of Leonardo DiCaprio, followed by an ego-laden, "I waste even less, so there! Where's my speech platform?" How can that be construed as an argument?
If you're a fiscal conservative, present some reasons why fiscal conservatism is the way to go, and we can go from there.
Last edited by torontocheeka; 04-05-2016 at 10:58 AM..
None at all? Don't know your definition of a liberal or what makes one an alpha male, but I can tell you in my 35 plus years in the sports profession I have met a good share of white athletes and coaches that lean left. Probably about 1 out of every 3, no less then 1 out of every 4.
In my experience, white males are liberal because they:
1. are rich enough to live in a predominately white neighborhood so don't deal with "liberal" issues like crime.
2. are so young they don't know what liberal means to their future.
3. lie because many young women are liberal and they want to get laid more than be honest.
4. are stupid.
Hmm I am an Adult "Liberal" and none of those apply to me.
Far Right Wing Conservatives want to go back to the days where Females and Coloreds knew their place and those dirty Homosexuals stayed in the closet where they belong.
Hmm I am an Adult "Liberal" and none of those apply to me.
Far Right Wing Conservatives want to go back to the days where Females and Coloreds knew their place and those dirty Homosexuals stayed in the closet where they belong.
A conservative believes in the individual and a limited Federal government along with states rights.
You believe in falsely playing the race card because you cannot discuss policy. And why would you want to discuss policy? All it would do is expose the failures of big government.
A conservative believes in the individual and a limited Federal government along with states rights.
You believe in falsely playing the race card because you cannot discuss policy. And why would you want to discuss policy? All it would do is expose the failures of big government.
Actually, from what I've seen most conservatives only believe in those things when it's convenient for them. Otherwise they like to pick and choose what the federal government should get involved in. They also like state governments to step on the rights of smaller local-level governments like cities and counties should they dare to step out of line and start doing things like raising the minimum wage or extending protections against discrimination to people the conservatives don't think should have it.
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