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The funny thing is that the more I think about it, and the more I learn about economics, the more public education just is flat out worse than private education. And there is the age old question concerning "well what about education for poor kids"? Well, let's look at how much public education actually will cost you.
The average private school cost about $9,000 years which come to close to $750 a month. And depending on the school, a kid may get a 2 month vacation so $9000-$1400 = $7600 per year. Now let's say hypothetically your kid goes to school for about 12 years (though I think in a true private system they should go to school for a lot less time than that, but maybe I'll save that for another topic). So we're talking about $9000 x 12 = $108,000 per child
Now let's look at the average US income. I'd put it around 30k a year. Based on the Virginia state payroll calculation (since Virginia is the most generic state) a person who makes 30k is likely to pay about $141 every 2 weeks. So let's say close to $300 a month in taxes. $300 x 12 = 3600, since you're paying these taxes year around.
Now one may be saying, "well isn't the taxes you pay cheaper than private school". It is, $3600 x 12 is $43,000. That's significantly less that $108k. Ah but there is a catch.
Let's say hypothetically you make $30k your entire work career, let's say from 21 -65. Well you've basically paid $3600 every year for 44 years! That's 158k!
There is also an issue with the quality of the schooling. At 30k you're likely to have you children at a subpar public school. Yet private schools on average have higher performance. So you're paying more for less.
One would say that the "up front" cost of private schools is just to exorbitant. And I would agree, private schools are too much money. And that's mainly because they don't feel they need to compete for lower income dollars. If there was a market for lower income, and less taxes overall, then everyone could afford a private education.
The funny thing is that the more I think about it, and the more I learn about economics, the more public education just is flat out worse than private education. And there is the age old question concerning "well what about education for poor kids"? Well, let's look at how much public education actually will cost you.
The average private school cost about $9,000 years which come to close to $750 a month. And depending on the school, a kid may get a 2 month vacation so $9000-$1400 = $7600 per year. Now let's say hypothetically your kid goes to school for about 12 years (though I think in a true private system they should go to school for a lot less time than that, but maybe I'll save that for another topic). So we're talking about $9000 x 12 = $108,000 per child
Now let's look at the average US income. I'd put it around 30k a year. Based on the Virginia state payroll calculation (since Virginia is the most generic state) a person who makes 30k is likely to pay about $141 every 2 weeks. So let's say close to $300 a month in taxes. $300 x 12 = 3600, since you're paying these taxes year around.
Now one may be saying, "well isn't the taxes you pay cheaper than private school". It is, $3600 x 12 is $43,000. That's significantly less that $108k. Ah but there is a catch.
Let's say hypothetically you make $30k your entire work career, let's say from 21 -65. Well you've basically paid $3600 every year for 44 years! That's 158k!
There is also an issue with the quality of the schooling. At 30k you're likely to have you children at a subpar public school. Yet private schools on average have higher performance. So you're paying more for less.
One would say that the "up front" cost of private schools is just to exorbitant. And I would agree, private schools are too much money. And that's mainly because they don't feel they need to compete for lower income dollars. If there was a market for lower income, and less taxes overall, then everyone could afford a private education.
How many homes in a taxing corporations lines, do not have children of school age, that pay $5000-20,000 a year in property taxes and other fees, that are suppose to be for the local school district, and then you get progressive crap like School Robinhood Schemes.
Private schools out perform public education by a wide margin.
Location: When you take flak it means you are on target
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I never had kids. Yet my money is stolen to baby sit these hoodlums. Yes I say babysit, they aren't educated when half drop out.
Since 25% will go from school to welfare and 20% will go directly to jail, and another 25% will make a career of min wage jobs. Why bother teaching them anything.
Send the productive 25% to private schools and college. Teach the rest to push a register button and use a shovel and give my money back.
Now let's look at the average US income. I'd put it around 30k a year. Based on the Virginia state payroll calculation (since Virginia is the most generic state) a person who makes 30k is likely to pay about $141 every 2 weeks. So let's say close to $300 a month in taxes. $300 x 12 = 3600, since you're paying these taxes year around.
Now one may be saying, "well isn't the taxes you pay cheaper than private school". It is, $3600 x 12 is $43,000. That's significantly less that $108k. Ah but there is a catch.
Let's say hypothetically you make $30k your entire work career, let's say from 21 -65. Well you've basically paid $3600 every year for 44 years! That's 158k!
The funny thing is that the more I think about it, and the more I learn about economics, the more public education just is flat out worse than private education. And there is the age old question concerning "well what about education for poor kids"? Well, let's look at how much public education actually will cost you.
The average private school cost about $9,000 years which come to close to $750 a month. And depending on the school, a kid may get a 2 month vacation so $9000-$1400 = $7600 per year. Now let's say hypothetically your kid goes to school for about 12 years (though I think in a true private system they should go to school for a lot less time than that, but maybe I'll save that for another topic). So we're talking about $9000 x 12 = $108,000 per child
Now let's look at the average US income. I'd put it around 30k a year. Based on the Virginia state payroll calculation (since Virginia is the most generic state) a person who makes 30k is likely to pay about $141 every 2 weeks. So let's say close to $300 a month in taxes. $300 x 12 = 3600, since you're paying these taxes year around.
Now one may be saying, "well isn't the taxes you pay cheaper than private school". It is, $3600 x 12 is $43,000. That's significantly less that $108k. Ah but there is a catch.
Let's say hypothetically you make $30k your entire work career, let's say from 21 -65. Well you've basically paid $3600 every year for 44 years! That's 158k!
There is also an issue with the quality of the schooling. At 30k you're likely to have you children at a subpar public school. Yet private schools on average have higher performance. So you're paying more for less.
One would say that the "up front" cost of private schools is just to exorbitant. And I would agree, private schools are too much money. And that's mainly because they don't feel they need to compete for lower income dollars. If there was a market for lower income, and less taxes overall, then everyone could afford a private education.
FYI, in most localities, school taxes are paid via property tax, not income.
In the locality I live in, I pay $1200 a year in taxes on the home I live in (I own others BTW that I rent, and all of them are almost the same amount so I pay a lot to our school system in property tax payments).
Of that $1200 a year for my residence, only about $400 of it per year goes to our school system.
I have two children.
If I sent my children to private schools, it would be, like you stated a minimum of $9000 per year. If I wanted them to go to a "good" private school - I'd have to send them to an independent school, as IMO Independent private schools (see NAIS - National Association of Independent Schools) are the only ones that are "good." If I wanted to send my kids to the only NAIS school in my area, it would cost me $30,000 per year.
So for my two kids for public school, for my residence only, I pay $400 a year.
At a private religious school - primarily Catholic in my area, I'd pay $15,000 a year for 2 kids.
At the only NAIS independent school in my area for my two kids, I'd pay $50,000 a year for 2 kids, please note this includes discounts that I would receive for sending two kids to private schools.
Now if we add in the taxes that you mentioned for income, as the Feds actually do pay a portion of public school fees for kids, I'd pay $4,000 a year for two kids to go to school if we add in the extra $3600 you figured above (please note that the entirety of state or federal taxes does not go to schools, so you using that entire figure is misleading, also please note that private schools do not deduct money from their tuition for summer break - the $9000 is $9000 for the 9 month "school year" and FWIW, the private Catholic high schools in my area that my son attend based on your idea I should send him is about $15,000 per school year so $1,666 per month).
The $4,000 per year to the public school system is much more do-able than $15,000 a year at a cheap Catholic school or $50,000 a year for a good NAIS school.
Over the course of a 12 year K-12 (and please note, you should include preschool/Pre-k as well as I did send both my kids to private preschool and back then it was $8000-$10000 per year of my money for each one of them) you would have the following:
Public - $48,000 for 12 years/2kids
Catholic - $180,000 for 12 years/2 kids
NAIS - $600,000 for 12 years/2 kids
FYI, in most localities, school taxes are paid via property tax, not income.
In the locality I live in, I pay $1200 a year in taxes on the home I live in (I own others BTW that I rent, and all of them are almost the same amount so I pay a lot to our school system in property tax payments).
Of that $1200 a year for my residence, only about $400 of it per year goes to our school system.
I have two children.
If I sent my children to private schools, it would be, like you stated a minimum of $9000 per year. If I wanted them to go to a "good" private school - I'd have to send them to an independent school, as IMO Independent private schools (see NAIS - National Association of Independent Schools) are the only ones that are "good." If I wanted to send my kids to the only NAIS school in my area, it would cost me $30,000 per year.
So for my two kids for public school, for my residence only, I pay $400 a year.
At a private religious school - primarily Catholic in my area, I'd pay $15,000 a year for 2 kids.
At the only NAIS independent school in my area for my two kids, I'd pay $50,000 a year for 2 kids, please note this includes discounts that I would receive for sending two kids to private schools.
Now if we add in the taxes that you mentioned for income, as the Feds actually do pay a portion of public school fees for kids, I'd pay $4,000 a year for two kids to go to school if we add in the extra $3600 you figured above (please note that the entirety of state or federal taxes does not go to schools, so you using that entire figure is misleading, also please note that private schools do not deduct money from their tuition for summer break - the $9000 is $9000 for the 9 month "school year" and FWIW, the private Catholic high schools in my area that my son attend based on your idea I should send him is about $15,000 per school year so $1,666 per month).
The $4,000 per year to the public school system is much more do-able than $15,000 a year at a cheap Catholic school or $50,000 a year for a good NAIS school.
Over the course of a 12 year K-12 (and please note, you should include preschool/Pre-k as well as I did send both my kids to private preschool and back then it was $8000-$10000 per year of my money for each one of them) you would have the following:
Public - $48,000 for 12 years/2kids
Catholic - $180,000 for 12 years/2 kids
NAIS - $600,000 for 12 years/2 kids
The average private school cost about $9,000 years which come to close to $750 a month.
If Catholic schools are included in this average it needs to be noted that the church subsidizes those schools, that said it's still cheaper even when that is removed.
On a side note, I will add that to supplement what you may consider an "inferior" public education, my kids attend a lot of camps and activities that I pay for out of pocket. Mostly they are arts and science based camps. I spend about $2000 per year on camps for my kids.
Also, FWIW, my kid's public schools are IMO better than our Catholic schools that cost about $15k per year at the high school level. My nephews go to private Catholic schools due to the voucher system in our state. Due to my income, we would not qualify for a full voucher, but I could get $5000 to put on my son going to my nephew's school and I could pay the $10000 leftover out of pocket pretty easily.
However, the Catholic school my nephews attend is not as good as the public STEM high school my son attends IMO. My son does not enjoy a "lecture" sort of learning environment and he needs a more "active" learning environment. At his school he takes the general courses - English, History, Math and PE. He also takes:
Pre-Engineering, where he does weekly engineering projects in a small group. In this class, they design and test ideas using modeling, automation, robotics, mechanical, and computer systems. Their projects are based on electrical engineering, green architecture and aerospace systems.
Math at his school is CAT based and he uses the ALEKS program, something not available at private schools or our other public schools. ALEKS allows him to work at his own pace in all math concepts by grade level. My son is currently working at an 11th grade math level in the 8th grade.
Lego Robotics, everyday he participates in projects using NXT-3 Lego Robotics. He is learning to program and code via this class. FWIW, he now hates legos lol. They have the opportunity to compete in local, state, and national level competitions.
Technology, a class which is based on solving problems with technological innovation and creativity. He works in teams and uses design software to solve every-day problems (the kids decide on which problems to solve based on the topic of the week) using robotics, mechanical systems, energy transfer, machine automation and computer science.
In the coming years, he will also take Welding, Computer Science, CAD(Computer Animated Design), AC/DC Electricity, Engineering Design, Energy Management Systems, and various other STEM based and manufacturing based classes. He will also have the ability to get 64 college credits and/or to get certifications in computer science and manufacturing technology. He cannot do this at private schools, not even the NAIS one in our area.
I think the $4000 is well spent just on his education alone. My daughter is only in 1st grade and the main things I look for at her level are teacher experience and classroom management as getting a good foundation in learning is the most important things for kids in preschool-2nd grade. When she is in 3rd grade, I'll see if I want to transfer her to another school. However, I doubt I will as she also goes to a pretty innovative school.
The last paragraph of the original post is most salient. If all schools were private, we would see tuition go down as schools try to attract lower income parents. I think public schools should only be for the poorest of the poor and should teach just the bare minimum so that no parent who could afford public schools would sent their kids there. Just like everything else the government controls, the price is automatically increased because politicians know they can just keep taxing the citizens to pay for it.
See above for a list of classes my son does per day. He would never do any of those at a Catholic or NAIS school everyday.
I have a nephew in the same grade as my son. He also takes Math, History, and PE, but he also takes Chinese, Art, Religion, and Biology. All of them are lecture classes. My son would hate it there and be bored out of his mind and his grades would suffer as a result. FWIW, my nephew is a very good lecture learner and so he does well at his Catholic school but when my son describes his daily activities to my nephew, my nephew does get jealous and wishes his parents would have sent him to my son's school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
If Catholic schools are included in this average it needs to be noted that the church subsidizes those schools, that said it's still cheaper even when that is removed.
Also, Catholic schools do provide discounts for Catholics. So in many areas, it will be cheaper for the Catholic parents to send their kids to those schools.
FWIW, I don't view parochial education all that positively being that when I was an inner-city public educated kid, I tutored kids from Catholic high schools who were the same age I was and they weren't learning anything better than I was learning IMO. I don't view my nephews curriculum as all that great either except for the Chinese. My son's school does not offer foreign language, which IMO is the only "con." My son attends a foreign language programs on weekends that I pay for to make up for this.
Also, the only religiously based private schools I have seen that are decent are the "Friends" schools like where the Obama girls attend. I had a college friend who went to their school and she was very impressive academically IMO. FWIW, she said Chelsea Clinton was very nice.
I was looking at sending my kids to a Friends school but we don't have any in this area. There was one in Atlanta but the charter my oldest attended was just as good as the one there and it was a public charter so was free.
As an aside, you'd be surprised at how many people I know who sent their kids to private schools thinking they would be better who now those "kids" work at factories or lower level clerical or management positions. I also knew a lot of drug addicted private school kids. People don't acknowledge that upper income people and especially in upper income public and private schools, those kids are much more likely to do drugs than public school kids.
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