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They aren't being asked to marry someone of the same sex, they are being asked to sell an item that they offer for sale. If their religious beliefs prevent them from selling wedding cakes, then they should not offer wedding cakes for sale.
Honestly, I would be happy with mandatory notification of who you won't serve on the door. That way I would know where to not shop, and they would never have to deal with me darkening their door. It's a win win situation.
Have you ever heard chefs and bakers talk about how they make their food with love? For many it's more then just putting some ingredients together for mass consumption. As I said earlier, the baker in Colorado expressed that when he makes a wedding cake he feels as if he is a part of the ceremony with that act and for him he would feel as if he was actually participating in gay marriage by providing the cake so due to his religious beliefs he feels that he cannot make the cake.
Why should he be forced to do something that he is morally/religiously opposed to? There are so many other bakeries who would LOVE to make a wedding cake for this couple's wedding. Why demand that this baker make the cake and demand that he is tolerant when no tolerance is given to him in return?
Have you ever heard chefs and bakers talk about how they make their food with love? For many it's more then just putting some ingredients together for mass consumption. As I said earlier, the baker in Colorado expressed that when he makes a wedding cake he feels as if he is a part of the ceremony with that act and for him he would feel as if he was actually participating in gay marriage by providing the cake so due to his religious beliefs he feels that he cannot make the cake.
Why should he be forced to do something that he is morally/religiously opposed to? There are so many other bakeries who would LOVE to make a wedding cake for this couple's wedding. Why demand that this baker make the cake and demand that he is tolerant when no tolerance is given to him in return?
Folks go back to the 1950s/early 1960s [and before] with Whites Only type of signs to indicate why it is not a good idea to allow business owners to indicate this/that. Gov't interference probably did speed up integration but with a lot of resentment it seems to both parties. Do not know if Govt non-interference would have benefited integration as in allowing the sentiment of the public to determine if a business failed due to their policy. Using a strong Gov't hand on the current topic which represents a much smaller segment of the population appears as overkill and dictatorial. I guess I am saying that less fanatics out there to refuse business compared to in the South of a few decades ago. Disapproval of homosexuality is not the same in my experience as the downright hatred of blacks I have seen among old Southerners, it is more of a condescention of anyone who is a homosexual. The racial division referred to was considered as some sort of affront to their Society. How strange.
I can see the argument from both sides and with recent historical perspective. Depends on the context, a business owner in a Gay friendly city or neighborhood would be out of their mind posting no service to Gays. Like having a business in a hometeam sports crazy neighborhood post a banner in favor of the arch rivals.
Have you ever heard chefs and bakers talk about how they make their food with love? For many it's more then just putting some ingredients together for mass consumption. As I said earlier, the baker in Colorado expressed that when he makes a wedding cake he feels as if he is a part of the ceremony with that act and for him he would feel as if he was actually participating in gay marriage by providing the cake so due to his religious beliefs he feels that he cannot make the cake.
Why should he be forced to do something that he is morally/religiously opposed to? There are so many other bakeries who would LOVE to make a wedding cake for this couple's wedding. Why demand that this baker make the cake and demand that he is tolerant when no tolerance is given to him in return?
The bakery knew the laws of their state, they had the option to not offer wedding cakes, or not open in that state, or work to get the law changed. They do not have the right to break the law then cry when punished for doing so.
As I have said before, I believe that if you want to discriminate you should be allowed as long as you post notice on your door who you will not serve. Let the market decide.
Have you ever heard chefs and bakers talk about how they make their food with love? For many it's more then just putting some ingredients together for mass consumption. As I said earlier, the baker in Colorado expressed that when he makes a wedding cake he feels as if he is a part of the ceremony with that act and for him he would feel as if he was actually participating in gay marriage by providing the cake so due to his religious beliefs he feels that he cannot make the cake.
Why should he be forced to do something that he is morally/religiously opposed to? There are so many other bakeries who would LOVE to make a wedding cake for this couple's wedding. Why demand that this baker make the cake and demand that he is tolerant when no tolerance is given to him in return?
Because that baker is too stupid/filled with hate to know what tolerant means.
Liberals want tolerance for gays and minorities (which every person should have anyway), but have no tolerance for any opinions which disagree with them.
Liberalism= Fascism
How many times do you see conservatives disrupting democrat speeches/rallies or shouting down liberal speakers?
It's hard for conservatives to find the map to the liberal speaker's site on a flip phone
The bakery knew the laws of their state, they had the option to not offer wedding cakes, or not open in that state, or work to get the law changed. They do not have the right to break the law then cry when punished for doing so.
As I have said before, I believe that if you want to discriminate you should be allowed as long as you post notice on your door who you will not serve. Let the market decide.
You're right. The law was on the same sex couple's side. The baker's religious views were the one's that were ultimately not tolerated, not the other way around. Under the law, posting a notice would do nothing but get him in more trouble. He will either make wedding cakes for anyone who walks in the door or for no one. The last news stories which are pretty old say that he has chosen the latter. No more wedding cakes. He went from 15 employees to 6 and lost a lot of revenue as wedding cakes were his priciest item.
Do you consider one out of thousands of bakeries refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same sex wedding based on the owner's religious beliefs to be oppression? I don't.
Do you not see how this could potentially open the floodgates? One days it's "No Wedding Cakes for Gays" the next it's "No Service for Blacks", or "No Spanish Speakers Allowed". You allow it for one business, you give others the excuse to do the same. It sets a terrible precedent.
If your religious beliefs conflict with the lifestyle of certain segments of the population, to the point where you you can't serve them in the same manner as you do others, don't open a business that's open to the public. Simple as that.
I'm fairly neutral on my position when it comes to gay/straight issues. However, why is it that those who scream 'tolerance' aren't willing to be tolerant of others' view if they are different?
If someone doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding for whatever reason, is that being intolerant? Yes. But, for those people that are going to give said bakery a hard time for their decision, isn't that also being intolerant?
Yes it's absolutely the same thing. What I find is that the left is far more intolerant than the right. Bernie Sanders can speak and the right just choose not to attend. Donald Trump speaks and the left feels they must silence him and disrupt his event. On campus, the left likes to occupy public spaces, shout people down, make demands, get in people's faces. If someone has a differing opinion then they need protection from those thoughts and safe places. The left tracks people down on the internet, which is supposed to offer anonymity and tries to get people fired from their jobs if they don't like their thoughts. The left demands gay rights, which is fine, but then will intentionally trample on the religious beliefs of Christian fundamentalists. Those people didn't randomly stumble into that bakery, they targeted it. It's a modern witch hunt and the irony is the left hasn't proven they're better than the people they hate so much, but rather exactly like them or worse in terms of hatred, intolerance and vindictiveness.
Do you not see how this could potentially open the floodgates? One days it's "No Wedding Cakes for Gays" the next it's "No Service for Blacks", or "No Spanish Speakers Allowed". You allow it for one business, you give others the excuse to do the same. It sets a terrible precedent.
If your religious beliefs conflict with the lifestyle of certain segments of the population, to the point where you you can't serve them in the same manner as you do others, don't open a business that's open to the public. Simple as that.
I don't think it will open the floodgates. A small handful of bakers and other wedding type of businesses in the US have refused to make wedding cakes or provide services for same sex weddings based on their documented and long held religious beliefs. The vast majority of bakers and other wedding professionals are more then happy and willing to take those customers off of their hands.
What documented religious views would allow a person to refuse service to people who speak Spanish or are black?
The law already protects people from discrimination based on race, sex, etc. and that law was upheld at least in the case of the CO baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same sex wedding. By the way, the baker also didn't make other cakes such as Halloween cakes due to his beliefs. That doesn't mean he turned away gay customers or customers who celebrated Halloween. He just didn't make those cakes.
You're right. The law was on the same sex couple's side. The baker's religious views were the one's that were ultimately not tolerated, not the other way around. Under the law, posting a notice would do nothing but get him in more trouble. He will either make wedding cakes for anyone who walks in the door or for no one. The last news stories which are pretty old say that he has chosen the latter. No more wedding cakes. He went from 15 employees to 6 and lost a lot of revenue as wedding cakes were his priciest item.
Good for him. He decided to live by his beliefs.
Just because one has a religious belief does not mean that they can violate city, state, or federal laws. If we want to allow religious belief to trump generally applicable laws then anything goes. I can claim that anything is a religious belief and then whatever I do can not be held in violation of the law. Some can use their "belief" to not serve women, some may use theirs to not serve blacks, some may not serve Christians, some may not serve Muslims. But we can go even further. What about zoning laws and speed limits, drug laws, drunk driving, child abuse, even murder can all be written off based on "religious belief".
Do you really want to open that floodgate?
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