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Does this door swing both ways? If a gay man/woman/couple own a bake shop can they refuse to bake that cake for a straight couple because of religious convictions? Can a Muslin refuse to bake the cake for a Christian couple?
Yes, they should be allowed to do that.
And some Muslim bakeries will not bake a cake for gays (watch for yourself)...
It seems that Muslim bakeries in Colorado must bake the cake. Photographers must photograph the wedding. Muslim state workers in Colorado must, THEMSELVES, issue the marriage license.
In Mississippi they don't have to. In Mississippi our new law applies to every citizen.
And that just drives the left wild.
I know about the lawsuits against bakers who wont sell a cake to a same sex couple for their wedding.
Is this because a baker wont "bake the cake" or wont "decorate the cake" putting two grooms on top for instance?
I'm just curious if the baker could bake and frost the cake then ask the couple to do any decorating themselves?
I know all the talk is about bathrooms these days, but I never did quite understand "the line in the sand" concerning bakers and weddings.
Thanks to anyone who might know!
It's more wordsmithing from the left. No one is "refusing" to sell a cake to anyone (isn't the idea to make a sale?) regardless of that mantra.
BTW, I've mentioned before many ways Christian bakeries have gotten around onerous requirements. One of them is exactly what you said. A local bakery sells the figures, and they couldn't care less if someone buys two grooms or two brides. One got out of catering business entirely, got rid of their expensive food transport van, and are thriving. A photographer (probably more than one) filed his DBA as a photographer for Catholic weddings only.
Because it was overly edited, and the bakeries have come forward and said that they did not refuse service at all. 1 made cakes for gay weddings. 1 only made breads and didn't make cakes or any other desserts. and 1 did not make wedding cakes. So one made same sex wedding cakes, and 2 didn;t make any wedding cakes at all.
When this issue is brought up, my conservative friends tend to go the 'it's their business' route. Any business should be able to refuse service for any reason.
The problem: that's rarely the overall discussion.
We see this with laws that apply this principles to very specific situations. We've seen numerous 'religious freedom' bills popping up across the US as a result of this discussion. If a business should be able to refuse service to anyone, why is this issue being reduced to purely issues of religious disagreement with same sex marriage, which in no religion that I'm aware of is technically a sin.
We aren't seeing efforts to repeal laws that say bakers can refuse to serve based on race or gender. We aren't even seeing support for that. To me, it's very clear that this narrative of 'private business rights' the right is trying to create is bull****. It's specifically about gay people. Maybe it's about religion, but I personally feel like modern civilization has no use for religion being this talked about in the public sphere. Religion is a personal matter; keep it out of politics and social life. Things work better that way.
But beyond this, it comes down to an issue of consistency. If it's illegal to discriminate, why are exceptions being made for gay people? It actually is more or less the same point as above, but from a slightly different angle. Respect for 'rule of law' is a fun thing conservatives say, yet it seems to be applied unevenly here (among other places). Why?
Again, the common denominator is gay people. The issue is that we have a group of people (it's not all conservatives, to be clear) who do not consider gay people human enough to warrant the same rights as others.
It seems that Muslim bakeries in Colorado must bake the cake. Photographers must photograph the wedding. Muslim state workers in Colorado must, THEMSELVES, issue the marriage license.
In Mississippi they don't have to. In Mississippi our new law applies to every citizen.
And that just drives the left wild.
Maybe for now but MS is about to join the 21st century one way or another.
It seems that Muslim bakeries in Colorado must bake the cake. Photographers must photograph the wedding. Muslim state workers in Colorado must, THEMSELVES, issue the marriage license.
In Mississippi they don't have to. In Mississippi our new law applies to every citizen.
And that just drives the left wild.
Only in cases of same sex marriage, or sex outside of marriage. Bakers can't refuse to bake a cake because the customer is black, or white, or Christian, or Muslim, or a woman, or a man, or a multitude of other reasons. It only applies to gays and sex outside of marriage. I bet you won't see any denying cakes to non virgins getting married either.
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Location: Pine Grove,AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster
Incorrect. In every case I have seen regarding gay weddings the objection by the baker has been about participating in something they find objectionable on religious grounds. In other words they serve gays in other capacities but are not willing to bake a cake for a gay wedding because they have a religious objection to gay marriage and want to have no part in it. It's more complex than the 'you're gay so I'm not gonna bake a cake for you' scenario you presented.
More complex in theory, but not in practice. Or is it the other way around ?????
IF this is truly about not serving someone because of your religious beliefs, then the fact that they themselves are gay should come before the marriage issue. Otherwise the debate isnt about religious freedom, but the degree to which you are comfortable .
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