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But, there are ALWAYS going to be people who don't have good sense and will bring up this sort of stuff inappropriately in the workplace. You cannot control them.
I know I can't control them, but if your manager started saying women are weak or stupid and shouldn't get higher-paying jobs or be in positions of leadership, would you just sip your coffee and not bring it up to anybody? This is the best way to allow problems to fester and grow, and right now his actions have already started causing problems.
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Originally Posted by UNC4Me
What I don't do is complain about it to my manager especially if he's participating in it. Why put yourself in that position? Why worry if your coworkers don't share your political views? Believe it or not, this election cycle will end (thank God) and the talk of politics will die down. You just don't want to be branded as the team member who can't take the heat when people don't agree with you. If you are, your opinion will NEVER matter even when it has to do with business.
Myself and others have complained about him and others to him and he's self-corrected or helped correct the problems between co-workers, this is nothing new. I can bring it up to him but in this case who you support for president right now is a very personal thing and there's a lot of anger against various candidates and their supporters, so do you think I should continue to let a manager make divisive comments and let teammates trash each other over completely unrelated things and possibly cause arguments and distrust?
I'm not worried about coworkers not sharing my beliefs, but hardly anybody brings it up just because it's so divisive. Now my manager has basically said in a standup "this political candidate is an idiot" and watched as a coworker says "his followers are especially idiots and definitely a-holes". How would you like being the minority there, the person who isn't following the groupthink, and have to worry about how people will treat you because you don't agree with them as in "silence isn't a yes"? Because the more it's brought up and talked about and the more opinionated people get, the more the groupthink will start marginalizing and suppressing people and causing discontent, unless I'm completely wrong and remaining silent against hate at the workplace is a good thing.
I experienced this in 1992. Everyone in my office was for Perot. They would all be talking about how great he was and I would just sit there silently. When asked about it, I would simply comment that I preferred to keep my political views private. This went on for quite awhile when one day my boss sat me down and told me to say who I was voting for and that it wouldn't be held against me. When I said I was voting for George H. W. Bush, I though my boss was going to go through the roof. Then came the unrelenting barrage from my coworkers.
If I had to do it again, I would have simply said I don't follow politics (even though I did) and leave it at that. But I was young back then and thought that by giving in, maybe I could actually get others to see my reasoning.
Just remember OP, it will all be over in November and everything will be back to normal.
I experienced this in 1992. Everyone in my office was for Perot. They would all be talking about how great he was and I would just sit there silently. When asked about it, I would simply comment that I preferred to keep my political views private. This went on for quite awhile when one day my boss sat me down and told me to say who I was voting for and that it wouldn't be held against me. When I said I was voting for George H. W. Bush, I though my boss was going to go through the roof. Then came the unrelenting barrage from my coworkers.
If I had to do it again, I would have simply said I don't follow politics (even though I did) and leave it at that. But I was young back then and thought that by giving in, maybe I could actually get others to see my reasoning.
Just remember OP, it will all be over in November and everything will be back to normal.
Thanks for the story and advise, I feel like you're one of the few who understands what I'm talking about here (uh oh, there's that word "feel" again, we can't use that word anymore now).
The "unrelenting barrage" from coworkers is basically what I'm worried about, people thinking or saying I'm an idiot or a-hole for supporting someone they don't like, that they think is going to ruin the country and their lives, careers, whatever, and then being distrusted or mistreated when it never mattered otherwise. I'm just trying to figure out how to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand, as most of the time politics were not a point of conversation, and I don't think it's going to end in November, I think I'll hear non-stop how "this idiot" will "continue to destroy the country" and "you're the idiot who supports that idiot".
It just causes discontent for zero reason and I've just never heard it like this from a manager and it causes me to lose some respect (uh oh, this is getting close to feelings, I just need to shut up and bow my head).
Yes, they can have their political beliefs at work, but do you agree that bringing it up at a meeting that has nothing to do with it can be very divisive? I'm not asking to have a protected political party class, I'm asking how to deal with a manager that is dividing the team due to bringing up highly-divisive and frankly insulting political opinion into a completely unrelated (and normally good-willed) daily standup where I've now seen people make incendiary remarks about another group of people they happen to work with, and the squints and stares and cold shoulders from certain people just from trying to return the conversation to business matters.
I believe that people have varying view points and that anything can be seen as divisive.
In regards to "dealing" with the manager, what exactly have they done to you other than incite uncomfortable feelings regarding political conversations?
Have you been threatened to conform with a political view? Have you been ridiculed for opposing views at the meeting table? Have you been disciplined due to not participating in political discussions?
If answers to the questions above is "no" then there is nothing you should be concerned about. I think you should stop being so sensitive and just expect that people have different views than you and that they can talk about them if they want to as long as they are not committing any policy infractions in the workplace.
IMO it doesn't sound like you have a very good relationship with your manager. As stated, the two I mentioned above, they didn't mind opposing views and the Democratic/liberal one was actually much more opinionated and combative on political issues than the conservative one. They never punished or disciplined anyone for opposing views. IMO there isn't anything wrong with speaking about one's view of a rally or of politics as long as no one is being negatively impacted. It seems to me that you are taking things personally that should not be taken personally and that you have a thin skin on these matters and need to learn to deal with people who do not behave how you want them to behave or think the same way that you do.
Thanks for the story and advise, I feel like you're one of the few who understands what I'm talking about here (uh oh, there's that word "feel" again, we can't use that word anymore now).
The "unrelenting barrage" from coworkers is basically what I'm worried about, people thinking or saying I'm an idiot or a-hole for supporting someone they don't like, that they think is going to ruin the country and their lives, careers, whatever, and then being distrusted or mistreated when it never mattered otherwise. I'm just trying to figure out how to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand, as most of the time politics were not a point of conversation, and I don't think it's going to end in November, I think I'll hear non-stop how "this idiot" will "continue to destroy the country" and "you're the idiot who supports that idiot".
It just causes discontent for zero reason and I've just never heard it like this from a manager and it causes me to lose some respect (uh oh, this is getting close to feelings, I just need to shut up and bow my head).
You shouldn't care about what people think. If you don't want to share your political views due to fear of retribution, you should just say you are not political and that you don't want to talk about it.
I know I can't control them, but if your manager started saying women are weak or stupid and shouldn't get higher-paying jobs or be in positions of leadership, would you just sip your coffee and not bring it up to anybody? This is the best way to allow problems to fester and grow, and right now his actions have already started causing problems.
Myself and others have complained about him and others to him and he's self-corrected or helped correct the problems between co-workers, this is nothing new. I can bring it up to him but in this case who you support for president right now is a very personal thing and there's a lot of anger against various candidates and their supporters, so do you think I should continue to let a manager make divisive comments and let teammates trash each other over completely unrelated things and possibly cause arguments and distrust?
I'm not worried about coworkers not sharing my beliefs, but hardly anybody brings it up just because it's so divisive. Now my manager has basically said in a standup "this political candidate is an idiot" and watched as a coworker says "his followers are especially idiots and definitely a-holes". How would you like being the minority there, the person who isn't following the groupthink, and have to worry about how people will treat you because you don't agree with them as in "silence isn't a yes"? Because the more it's brought up and talked about and the more opinionated people get, the more the groupthink will start marginalizing and suppressing people and causing discontent, unless I'm completely wrong and remaining silent against hate at the workplace is a good thing.
I think we aren't seeing eye to eye on this because we started our careers at very different times.
First of all, no manager today would say something like that about women because they know they'd get their pants sued off. Gender discrimination is illegal. But, back in the day (early 80s) managers said crap like that ALL the time. I had one manager tell me he couldn't give me a raise even though I deserved it because a guy on the team just had a baby and needed the money more. And my coworkers were even worse. The men went out of their way to belittle their female coworkers and insist that women weren't logical enough or smart enough to be software engineers. It was a giant good old boys club. If you didn't develop a thick skin, you didn't last. Many did not. I knew more women than I can remember quit the industry just because of the treatment they received at the hands of their male coworkers and managers.
So while I agree with you that your manager is a jerk and your coworkers are his idiot followers, I still would not complain to the manager or his manager or whoever. It wouldn't bother me in the least if people thought I wasn't following groupthink. I would just keep my own counsel and let it roll off my back. I guess that's just what I learned to do and I can't get all that riled about people feeling in the minority over what political candidate they support.
You've misinterpreted what I've said. I'm not asking for the manager to value my political opinion; in fact, I've never brought it up to him or anybody who I support, and that doesn't matter anyways. The problem is the divisiveness between coworkers based on political opinions which don't need to be brought up at work, or the "groupthink" they feel they're a part of, which has nothing to do with the job. It causes people to mistrust or mistreat based on opinions that aren't part of the job and didn't need to be brought up in a team meeting that has nothing to do with it.
Do you bring up controversial religious topics or sexual topics during team meetings that have nothing to do with them? Do you want to watch people argue and insult each other all day? If someone brings up something at a team meeting that you heavily disagree with that has nothing to do with why you're there, and the other people start trashing people like you, do you feel that's a good thing to have at a meeting? Or do you believe in groupthink and think that people should just fall in line or get out? Maybe you're a manager who wants people to hear your highly-divisive unrelated opinions at meetings when they don't need to and it's all about the strongest voice wins no matter what decoherence you've caused, does it concern you at all what problems you're causing and that not everyone's going to agree?
Of course you know you're right, right? The manger's job is to engage the group to work as a team and to make sure that any non-business related issues do not interfere with that goal. A few questions:
1) Do you see your manager as being effective as regards to the job description above? I suspect not, considering your opening remarks. If yes, you should be able to have a constructive conversation that will encourage him/her to speak with the team and quell any further discussion, in meeting or out, regarding politics or any other controversial topics.
2) If the above is no, does your company have an effective Human Resources department, that will allow you to submit your concerns regarding the manager's inability to manage. You should have the ability to make this submission anonymously. Be sure you submit your concerns framed in a way that highlights your the potential harm regarding corporate productivity.
3) If the answer is no to either of the above, is there a senior manager that you feel confident would appreciate being notified of the manager's failures? If yes, do so, but in a professional manner that deals with this issue and this issue only. Do not let your report on productivity concerns devolve into a generalized attack on your manager.
$) IF all three of the above are no, then put a smile on your face, put your head down, and begin perusing the want adds for job opportunities.
Where I work, the management is intensely political, and hold different views from nearly all the employees.
Aside from snide remarks from the executive staff once in a while, or someone's comment out of their hearing, politics aren't debated here.
Most of us know where the other's stand, but work around it. If you can't live with other's viewpoints you just start crap that disrupts the office and slows workflow.
Yeah, everybody is emotionally invested in the campaigns this year, but the election will be over in November and we'll be back to grousing from the losers and gloating from the winners, then everybody will forget about it until the next election.
Starting arguments about politics or how someone else chooses to voice their opinion can get you a "creating a hostile work environment" rap and that's a one way ticket out the door.
Is making sure your opinion is heard so important you want to lose a job over it? If you aren't part of the majority, it could happen.
The question I always ask is, "is this a hill I'm willing to die on?" before I start something I might not be able finish in a positive way for me.
Thanks for the story and advise, I feel like you're one of the few who understands what I'm talking about here (uh oh, there's that word "feel" again, we can't use that word anymore now).
The "unrelenting barrage" from coworkers is basically what I'm worried about, people thinking or saying I'm an idiot or a-hole for supporting someone they don't like, that they think is going to ruin the country and their lives, careers, whatever, and then being distrusted or mistreated when it never mattered otherwise. I'm just trying to figure out how to put a stop to it before it gets out of hand, as most of the time politics were not a point of conversation, and I don't think it's going to end in November, I think I'll hear non-stop how "this idiot" will "continue to destroy the country" and "you're the idiot who supports that idiot".
It just causes discontent for zero reason and I've just never heard it like this from a manager and it causes me to lose some respect (uh oh, this is getting close to feelings, I just need to shut up and bow my head).
LOL. No one (not even me) said you aren't allowed your feelings. Feel away. Make yourself into a ball of feelings. But, it is a fact that as far as business goes, no one cares about your feelings. Or the feelings of anyone. Except maybe the shareholders.
Seriously, your feelings are what they are and feeling what you do is not wrong. No one should tell you what to feel. However, acting on your feelings without thinking about the possible consequences is not always the best plan when dealing in a business setting. In other words, consider the matter as dispassionately as you can so you don't let your feelings rule your best interests.
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