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I acknowledged that sure, I might incidentally benefit from your choice to vaccinate, but that is not my problem - it's yours.
That's what free riding is: you "incidentally" benefit from the choice of others to vaccinate, a benefit which is there whether you want it to be or care whether it is there. It exists.
On the other hand, your refusal to vaccinate presents a real danger, not only to you but to others around you, particularly infants and children.
That's what free riding is: you "incidentally" benefit from the choice of others to vaccinate, a benefit which is there whether you want it to be or care whether it is there. It exists.
On the other hand, your refusal to vaccinate presents a real danger, not only to you but to others around you, particularly infants and children.
It (my benefit) only exists because people choose to vaccinate enmasse. That's their own choice, and the fact that it is a choice and not a mandate negates your free rider argument. I'd only be a free rider if there was a mandate and law to 100% participation, regardless of variable, spelled out in the cotus. There isn't, and won't ever be. Therefore, thanks, but you really didn't have to do all that on my behalf. I certainly didn't ask for it.
Same way you couldn't make the free rider argument about property values. Even if your neighbor maintains a manicured lawn and flawless home, thus raising your dilapidated home's value by virtue of simply living next door, that's on them, not you. You owe them nothing.
I have two questions - why do you hate liberty so much? Where did you get the idea that as Americans, we are somehow mandated to a herd existence?
It (my benefit) only exists because people choose to vaccinate enmasse. That's their own choice, and the fact that it is a choice and not a mandate negates your free rider argument. I'd only be a free rider if there was a mandate and law to 100% participation, regardless of variable, spelled out in the cotus. There isn't, and won't ever be. Therefore, thanks, but you really didn't have to do all that on my behalf. I certainly didn't ask for it.
Same way you couldn't make the free rider argument about property values. Even if your neighbor maintains a manicured lawn and flawless home, thus raising your dilapidated home's value by virtue of simply living next door, that's on them, not you. You owe them nothing.
I have two questions - why do you hate liberty so much? Where did you get the idea that as Americans, we are somehow mandated to a herd existence?
Without vaccines maybe the human race wouldn't exist anymore
It (my benefit) only exists because people choose to vaccinate enmasse. That's their own choice, and the fact that it is a choice and not a mandate negates your free rider argument. I'd only be a free rider if there was a mandate and law to 100% participation, regardless of variable, spelled out in the cotus. There isn't, and won't ever be. Therefore, thanks, but you really didn't have to do all that on my behalf. I certainly didn't ask for it.
Same way you couldn't make the free rider argument about property values. Even if your neighbor maintains a manicured lawn and flawless home, thus raising your dilapidated home's value by virtue of simply living next door, that's on them, not you. You owe them nothing.
I have two questions - why do you hate liberty so much? Where did you get the idea that as Americans, we are somehow mandated to a herd existence?
You have already admitted that you derive a benefit. You just refuse to accept that you are getting it for free.
Your liberty ends where mine begins, and the courts have upheld vaccine mandates as preserving public health. Herd immunity is an epidemiological concept, and like it or not you are a member of the epidemiological herd. If you have been vaccinated - and, ironically, many in the anti-vax camp have been - or have had a vaccine preventable disease, you contribute to herd immunity. If not, those of us who have been vaccinated or had those diseases protect you.
There are lots of things not specified in the Constitution. That does not prevent the states from making laws about them.
Since your dilapidated home is more likely to lower the value of the immaculate property next door than the value of yours is to increase, your anecdote just serves as a metaphor for the harm refusing vaccines does.
Yea, doubtful considering the length of human history as compared to the advent of vaccines.
How old are you? Apples and oranges.
Do you need a safe space to discuss the reality of how many lives vaccinations have saved post vs. pre-advent of vaccines? Will everyone in that safe space have to agree with you?
You and your ilk only get to say what you do because of those who vax.
Deal with that FACT.
Or... go head on over to some 3rd world country where kids and adults die from vax preventable diseases every day..and bring your un-vaxed self and kids with you, take your chances ...if it's not such a big deal to catch it all and have life long immunity from making it through the disease.
Is it because medicine is so much more advanced/available in a first world country that those who don't vax believe they can rely on the big pharma they hate (when maple syrup doesn't cure meningitis) when in a pinch?
Can't have it both ways, but you anti-vaxer's in a 1st world country certainly do and only because you all know that there is a huge safety net to catch you.
Last edited by Informed Info; 05-13-2016 at 01:08 AM..
I grew up in the days of the draft. They stood on one side of us with an air gun (jet gun) and the other side of us. The man in front of me flinched and the blood was running down his arm when they hollered "next". I survived; I believe that the military gave 26 different shots if you were going overseas and about 13 if you were staying state side. I still have two small pockets in my arms from some form of plague vaccination. Now I don't think they use the air guns because of fears of Hepatitis C? I have to wonder if today's military vaccination program is as extensive as it was in the 1960's?
After going through that it just seems like such nonsense to fear just a few shots that could save your life or that of your loved ones!
Being that this is a debate about getting vaccinated, where exactly do you think that modern medicine came from?
Medicinal plants have been identified and used throughout human history. Plants make many chemical compounds that are for biological functions, including defence against insects, fungi and herbivorousmammals. At least 12,000 such compounds have been isolated so far; a number estimated to be less than 10% of the total. Chemical compounds in plants mediate their effect on the human body through processes identical to those already well understood for the chemical compounds in conventional drugs; thus herbal medicines do not differ greatly from conventional drugs in terms of how they work.
This enables herbal medicines to have beneficial pharmacology, but also gives them the same potential as conventional pharmaceutical drugs to cause harmful side effects.Moreover plant material comes with a variety of compounds which may have undesired effects, though these can be reduced by processing.
The use of plants as medicines pre-dates written human history. Ethnobotany, the study of traditional human uses of plants, is recognized as an effective way to discover future medicines. In 2001, researchers identified 122 compounds used in modern medicine which were derived from traditional plant sources; 80% of these have had a traditional use identical or related to the current use of the active elements of the plant.
Some of the pharmaceuticals currently available to physicians are derived from plants that have a long history of use as herbal remedies, including aspirin, digoxin, quinine, and opium.
I worked at Merck for 6 months during undergrad in anti-biotic isolation chemistry; I know the origins of medicines. In fact, many of the macrolids (high molecular weight anti-biotics) are still produced from fermentation vats. Further, we study the chemical structures and historical origins of medicines in pharmacology.
Current "herbal medicines" are simply poorly controlled pharmaceuticals. Many have the reported effect that is claimed (anti-inflammatory, anti-depressant, ect). However, there are much better, pure pharmaceuticals available.
The problem with herbals is that 95% of those herbal medicines sold do not actually contain "the drug" which is presumably being sold- most contain just rice fillers. Further, the content of those products that actually contain the "medicine" is all over the map.
They both deserve some jail time just for giving a young child horseradish & onions. What is wrong with them?! Nobody will change their beliefs but perhaps some jail time may make them make a better choice next time.
It (my benefit) only exists because people choose to vaccinate enmasse. That's their own choice, and the fact that it is a choice and not a mandate negates your free rider argument. I'd only be a free rider if there was a mandate and law to 100% participation, regardless of variable, spelled out in the cotus. There isn't, and won't ever be. Therefore, thanks, but you really didn't have to do all that on my behalf. I certainly didn't ask for it.
Same way you couldn't make the free rider argument about property values. Even if your neighbor maintains a manicured lawn and flawless home, thus raising your dilapidated home's value by virtue of simply living next door, that's on them, not you. You owe them nothing.
I have two questions - why do you hate liberty so much? Where did you get the idea that as Americans, we are somehow mandated to a herd existence?
"As Americans"? Say what? Special little snowflakes are you?
What you describe as herd mentality is what others describe as societal norms of advancement. You know, things as simple as that white line down the center of the road so you don't get your azz run over by a Greyhound bus.
C'mon with this "freeman" nonsense already. You rely upon many things the collective has decided upon for your behalf.
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