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Old 05-06-2016, 11:07 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,792,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

Isn't all human good, merely based around human happiness? Then why is it that humans have become less-happy?
Isn't it ironic then that I, the atheist, find life to be full of joy and beauty, and that you, the believer, seems to be mired in negativity?

 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,173,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Believing that this life is all there is means that this life is even more precious, and that what we do in this life is how we define ourselves. While that may make some more materialistic, that doesn't make all atheists more materialistic.
I have never met an atheist who wasn't materialistic.

Atheists tend to fall into two camps. Either they are socialists, who want to use government for social and economic justice(IE socialism/statism, usually utopian/idealists). Or they are libertarians, who want to be free to do whatever they want to do(IE to have more fun).
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,568,094 times
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Are these odd views on atheists, common in the US? Is being an atheist something people even talk about much?
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,297 posts, read 54,176,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I have never met an atheist who wasn't materialistic.
And the religious people you've met?

They wear sackcloth?

Live in huts?

Don't own cars?

Don't hope their kids will have more than they grew up with?

Wear no jewelry?

Have no TVs?

Own no cell phones?

Etc., etc., etc., .................................................. ......................................
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,173,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Isn't it ironic then that I, the atheist, find life to be full of joy and beauty, and that you, the believer, seems to be mired in negativity?
You keep making assumptions. Just because I advocate religion, doesn't make me religious. Might it be that, me, not being a believer, understands just how terrible the psychological effects are for those who don't really believe?


I mean, I could break out some Tolstoy...


“Involuntarily it appeared to me that there, somewhere, was someone who amused himself by watching how I lived for thirty or forty years: learning, developing, maturing in body and mind, and how, having with matured mental powers reached the summit of life from which it all lay before me, I stood on that summit -- like an arch-fool -- seeing clearly that there is nothing in life, and that there has been and will be nothing. And he was amused... But whether that "someone" laughing at me existed or not, I was none the better off. I could give no reasonable meaning to any single action or to my whole life. I was only surprised that I could have avoided understanding this from the very beginning -- it has been so long known to all. Today or tomorrow sickness and death will come (they had come already) to those I love or to me; nothing will remain but stench and worms. Sooner or later my affairs, whatever they may be, will be forgotten, and I shall not exist. Then why go on making any effort?... How can man fail to see this? And how go on living? That is what is surprising! One can only live while one is intoxicated with life; as soon as one is sober it is impossible not to see that it is all a mere fraud and a stupid fraud! That is precisely what it is: there is nothing either amusing or witty about it, it is simply cruel and stupid.”

Quote by Leo Tolstoy:
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,297 posts, read 54,176,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Are these odd views on atheists, common in the US? Is being an atheist something people even talk about much?

Among the sanctimonious, not only these odd views on atheists but on anyone else who doesn't conform to what they believe. It's not uncommon to hear members of one Christian denomination refer to another as a 'cult'!

Yep! Just one, big, happy family, with all the dysfunction that goes along with that.
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:27 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,792,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
You keep making assumptions. Just because I advocate religion, doesn't make me religious. Might it be that, me, not being a believer, understands just how terrible the psychological effects are for those who don't really believe?

I'm not making assumptions. You've told us on this thread that while you aren't particularly religious that you believe in God. And I don't think you understand anything about atheists. I've suffered no psychological effects by not believing in God. Instead, I wake up each day knowing how much I value the day, wanting it to be the best day, enjoying the beauty of the sunset, breathing in deeply the lemon scent of the little white flowers that are blooming all over my yard. Each morning I spy something deeply beautiful in the world, that gives me joy.
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,173,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
If you want to see shining examples of materialism at its finest you need only look at places like Vatican City and places like the Crystal Cathedral to know that materialism is hardly a characteristic limited to non-believers. You're only describing human traits that are not at all defined by whether one believes in 'god' or not.
As I stated earlier in this thread, the real Jesus was an anarchist, who was incredibly anti-materialism.

As Ghandi famously said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”


Christians have become tainted by the interests of the Church. Basically, the church needs money, so it must encourage Christians to become materialistic(IE to earn more money, to pay more in tithes). Money corrupts religion, just as it corrupts everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
So, you'd have us believe religious people have no interest in imposing justice in this world?
What I'm saying is, the most fundamentalist Christians, tend to be, for the most part, anti-government. Those are the types who want to run out into the wilderness, living in compounds/communes, and at the very least, they homeschool their children.

Christians overwhelmingly vote for the Republican party. Atheists overwhelmingly vote for the Democratic party.

Social and Political Views of the Unaffiliated | Pew Research Center


Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
You're trying to equate non-belief in 'god' with hostility towards individual freedom. I couldn't disagree more strongly. If anything, based on my experience being raised in the Catholic Church, it's religion that seeks to destroy individual freedom and force conformity to its own standards on its members.
What I'm saying is, atheism tends towards "humanism". But humanism is effectively, "The greatest good for the greatest number". What else could it be?


Humanism has no interest in freedom, except to the extent that freedom is beneficial. If freedom isn't beneficial, then freedom is of no value.
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,546,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadgates View Post
Actually that wasn't really true until Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

Christians initially WERE Jews. Many of the Jewish customs were practiced by the early church.

One big stumbling block for early Jewish Christians was their desire to have gentile believers adhere to Jewish customs and laws. THIS is what Paul railed against so many times in his epistles.

When Constantine came along he basically rid the church of anything tied to Judaism which, IMO, was poor judgement.

Make no mistake, we do not "do the opposite". We share a common bond and are similar in many ways.
Christians are not Jews and never have been from day one. Just because Christianity arose out of Judaism does not mean that Christians are Jews. It would be as accurate to say that Muslims are Jews because Islam arose out of Judaism. Actually there are far more similarities between Islam and Judaism than either religion has to Christianity. The Christian message of forgiveness and salvation through a substitutionary sacrifice by a Man God is unique. It's so utterly different and contrary to Jewish beliefs that it was the Jews that put Jesus on the cross for what they considered to be the ultimate blasphemy.
 
Old 05-06-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,173,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
You've told us on this thread that while you aren't particularly religious that you believe in God.
No, I said that I believe there has to be something more to this life. But that was a conclusion I made, after going full atheist for a while, and nearly committing suicide, because of the hopelessness/pointlessness/meaninglessness of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Instead, I wake up each day knowing how much I value the day, wanting it to be the best day, enjoying the beauty of the sunset, breathing in deeply the lemon scent of the little white flowers that are blooming all over my yard. Each morning I spy something deeply beautiful in the world, that gives me joy.
I don't think you've adequately questioned life.

"One can only live while one is intoxicated with life; as soon as one is sober it is impossible not to see that it is all a mere fraud and a stupid fraud! That is precisely what it is: there is nothing either amusing or witty about it, it is simply cruel and stupid." - Leo Tolstoy


Why does it really matter? I highly doubt you spy something beautiful in the world, especially if you are in here arguing with me on the internet.


In any case, without god, life is pointless. It is only worth living, as long as you find pleasure in it. Once the pleasure stops, even for a moment, life suddenly becomes meaningless, and even unbearable. Why bother with anything? Why get out of bed in the morning? Nothing matters.

And someday, you will die, and everything you've done, will be meaningless. And everyone you care about, will die, and all their acts, will be meaningless. And someday, humans will cease to exist, and all their acts, will be meaningless.
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