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Old 05-11-2016, 06:04 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,226,754 times
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I think people are not really considering what this guy is saying. He's pointing out that in the west we often sit around waxing the poetic on how we ended the Nazi threat while ignoring the heavy price that the Soviets paid. The eastern front had tied up around 4 millions German soldiers and their allies. We would of fought a far more bloody conflict if they had not been in the east.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,685,446 times
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Russian front was definitely no fun! Just ask the Polish Officer Corp about the Katyn Forest episode!!!
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,219,060 times
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Great, another a-hole know-it-all liberal trying to get Americans to stop being patriotic about our "flawed nation".

Those Russian armies pursuing the Germans west across the Russian Steppe were driving Jeeps, launching Katyushas from Studebaker trucks and eating Spam. Where is that little tidbit of info in this insipid article.

The Germans also forgot the maxim "Never declare a land war in Asia".
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:16 AM
 
29,965 posts, read 18,525,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
I don't disagree with the tone and factual statements from the article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...pm_world_pop_b

Without western supplies, the USSR would have fallen. Also, had the spectre of the US entering the war not been there, Japan would have invaded Eastern Russia. The Japanese had chosen to pursue a path of securing vital resources in the Pacific, rather than start a ground war with Russia. They had been defeated by the Russians (stalemate) in Mongolia and thier tanks were no match for the T-34s.

The Russians faced 2/3 of the German army, while the west faced 1/3. Yet without the west occupying troops in the west, tying up Japan in the east, and providing materials, the USSR would have fallen.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:22 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,138,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
The Germans were already stalled before the allies entered the war. There wasn't much of a chance that was going to alter regardless if a second front opened or not.
Stalled maybe.


But without a second front to worry about, the qualitative edge Germany enjoyed could have overcome the quantitative edge that the USSR had.


Let the Soviets expend themselves in attacks, then counter-attack the now weakened forces.


The hole color of the war could have changed.


Russia wanted a second front opened up and refused to attack Japan until he had Germany contained. Then he made his land grab from the Japanese.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:22 AM
 
Location: The land of infinite variety!
2,046 posts, read 1,494,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
I think people are not really considering what this guy is saying. He's pointing out that in the west we often sit around waxing the poetic on how we ended the Nazi threat while ignoring the heavy price that the Soviets paid. The eastern front had tied up around 4 millions German soldiers and their allies. We would of fought a far more bloody conflict if they had not been in the east.
They were the only ones in the east when their alliance with Germany went bad. No doubt the Russian's paid a huge price in terms of lives and resources, but they were not entirely without guilt.

Although the Us didn't become involved until later in the war, we didn't start it, or have any role in starting it. Something Russia can't say.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,219,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
The Germans were already stalled before the allies entered the war. There wasn't much of a chance that was going to alter regardless if a second front opened or not.
I don't have a problem with being reminded of the Soviet sacrifice of WW2 but with a title like: "Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler" and first paragraph statements like: "In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one" the author is being an a-hole.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:01 AM
 
952 posts, read 515,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
I don't have a problem with being reminded of the Soviet sacrifice of WW2 but with a title like: "Don’t forget how the Soviet Union saved the world from Hitler" and first paragraph statements like: "In the Western popular imagination -- particularly the American one" the author is being an a-hole.
This^^

history.stackexchange.com/questions/25/how-many-troops-died-on-d-day


Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces.

Excuse me for not thanking Russia for this...
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:30 AM
 
29,965 posts, read 18,525,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livejack View Post
This^^

history.stackexchange.com/questions/25/how-many-troops-died-on-d-day


Over 425,000 Allied and German troops were killed, wounded or went missing during the Battle of Normandy. This figure includes over 209,000 Allied casualties, with nearly 37,000 dead amongst the ground forces and a further 16,714 deaths amongst the Allied air forces.

Excuse me for not thanking Russia for this...

That is true. However, keep in mind that 1.8 million Russians and 1.1 million Germans died at the battle of Stalingrad.

The war in the east was a "super sized" version of the war in the west.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,993 posts, read 27,378,163 times
Reputation: 15927


The Red Army held off the Germans at the critical point in the war, allowing the Americans and Brits to get organized and open up a second front.

but but but..

a western Europe left to shift for itself in the 1940s would have been screwed either way – if not screwed by Hitler, then screwed by Stalin, like Poland and Czechoslovakia and all the other countries “liberated” by the Red Army.

No?
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