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Old 05-14-2016, 11:07 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,897,771 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Adam Smith wrote his work "The Wealth of Nations" to put forth the idea that free market competition was the best way to create and maximize the wealth of nations. Better than things like Mercantilism, slavery, hunter-gatherer, or feudalism. The system Smith championed was called Capitalism. It puts a premium on the most efficient use of capital and in doing an activity for the lowest cost possible.


Businesses are punished by share holders if they choose to do things inefficiently. You must use the best technology and practices. You must keep wages to the minimum practical. If you can do your business with few workers you must. This may have been good at the beginning of industrial development but as the economy develops. Wealth becomes concentrated and technology improves to the point that its use eliminates jobs not create them.


The USA is plagued by slow growth and if it weren't for the retirement of the Baby Boom Generation our job growth rate is grossly inadequate because it lags behind our population growth. Although our nations net wealth is growing it is many in the form or virtual financial wealth largely due to the fact or accident of history made the US dollar the international reserve currency that underwrites about 60% of all business activities globally and dollar denominated financial obligations exceed 600 Trillion dollars. The number of dollars in non-American hands exceeds that in American hands!


In looking at the current Presidential campaign much is being said about erecting tarrif walls, and other abandonments of the free market that it begs the question ,has the free market become inadequate for managing the American economy and have we outgrown a economic system first formulated in the 18th Century?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Critical/creative thinking approaches may involve considering 'What if' strategies. A simple critical/creative thinking approach to solving problems:

• Identify the problems. — “What’s the real questions we’re facing here?”
• Define the context. — “What are the facts & circumstances that frame this problem?”
Enumerate choices. — “What are our most plausible three or four options?”
• Analyze options. — “What is our best course of action, all things considered?”
• List reasons explicitly. — “Let’s be clear: Why we are making this particular choice?”
• Self-correct. — “Okay, let’s look at it again. What did we miss?
mwruckman: Taking a critical/creative thinking approach to the OP, perhaps one plausible option is to consider customer-driven capitalism. This article discusses:

Quote:
...Maximizing shareholder value, Martin wrote, “is a tragically flawed premise, and it is time we abandoned it and made the shift to… customer-driven capitalism “ Now in 2014, the Aspen Institute report shows that thought leaders are in fact converging on customer capitalism as a better idea. ...
Forbes Welcome
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Old 05-14-2016, 11:10 AM
 
4,491 posts, read 2,217,683 times
Reputation: 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Everyone should be self employed... There should never be a thing as an "employee". You volunteer to be a slave for someone else, for what they feel you are worth to them.... and then youbitchpissandmoan about it.

Self employed, actually can be selective in who they work for and what job they are willing to take on. They set their own destiny and worth and value to the world.



The government telling a person, no matter of their age(child) that they cannot produce and provide for themselves and then FORCE the collective to support the person making it on their own.
Can a kid(6 yo) mow the neighbors grass in the neighborhood and get paid? Help your dad or brother, or brother-in-law install flooring(started at 12 during the summers)( I did for 7 years"mow grass" and bought my first car(69 Dodge Coronet R/T basketcase when I was 13 and had it in show room condition when I turned 16 and got my license to drive)
No, today let government get wind of that!
Most people cannot afford to be self employed. There's literally no way you don't already know that, so I won't elaborate any further. Even so, I don't think it's remotely sustainable for everyone to be totally autonomous. In fact, I'm certain it's impossible.

The government does not tell 6 year olds they can't mow lawns for money or tell 12 year olds they can't work with a parent. So, lucky you?
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Old 05-14-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,481,336 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticratic View Post
Most people cannot afford to be self employed. There's literally no way you don't already know that, so I won't elaborate any further. Even so, I don't think it's remotely sustainable for everyone to be totally autonomous. In fact, I'm certain it's impossible.

The government does not tell 6 year olds they can't mow lawns for money or tell 12 year olds they can't work with a parent. So, lucky you?

Why not... You would still be doing what your doing now.
The government does say a kid cannot have a dangerous job, as using power tools. (thing is, the kid in that instance is self employed and government has no mechanism to stop him or tax him on his income)
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Old 05-14-2016, 02:18 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,036,541 times
Reputation: 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticratic View Post
Well, I disagree fundamentally about theory being left to classrooms. But I'll set that aside for now.

In what was is free will a restriction? An argument for your point could be made, but an equally strong argument could be made the free will is the enabler, not the restrictor.

And sure, unobtrusive regulation. The problem with this is that it's sort of hard to define. Some say that being required to pay your workers a fair wage is obtrusive. Others say it's not. Many would argue that it took state legislation to get that to happen. It certainly took state regulation to get children out of coal mines, but not as many would consider that obtrusive, at least not today.
Theories. I'm not really interested. I'll stick to discussing realities.
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Old 05-14-2016, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,887 posts, read 3,876,339 times
Reputation: 5839
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Ask a person who has opened a business how "free" the market is.
Ask a person who dumped their employer for a competitor who paid them more money due to their skills how "free" the market is.
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Old 05-15-2016, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,975,447 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" What if?"

I don't play "what if" games. It is a waste of time.



You better not buy a used car from me, because you'd never ask this question, What if this nice shiny car is a lemon or a stolen car!
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Old 05-15-2016, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,105 posts, read 5,975,447 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
Ask a person who dumped their employer for a competitor who paid them more money due to their skills how "free" the market is.

Its only free if your employer forgot to make you sign a no compete clause at the time of employment.
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Old 05-15-2016, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,645,668 times
Reputation: 24860
What if our economic problems are due to the free market?


I contend that many of our economic problems are created by the fact that at many levels from one man owning all the gas stations in town to the highest levels of finance the "free market" has been replaced with one form or another of Monopoly.


Wall-mart, because of its vast size has been able to force its suppliers to cut prices to whatever Wallyworld would pay if the supplier wanted to remain in business. Wallyworld could them use its size to drive competitors out of business and raise the prices once their competitors were destroyed.


This form of Capitalism is so far from a market economy that it is called Corporatism. The result is the customers pay more for fewer choices.
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Old 05-15-2016, 05:32 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,897,771 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Why not... You would still be doing what your doing now.
The government does say a kid cannot have a dangerous job, as using power tools. (thing is, the kid in that instance is self employed and government has no mechanism to stop him or tax him on his income)
Re: Child labor laws:

1832 – The New England Association of Farmers, Mechanics and Other Workingmen officially condemns child labor.

1836 – Massachusetts creates the first state child labor law requiring factory children under 15 to go to school a minimum of 3 months per year.

1836 – Early trade unions at the National Trades’ Union Convention propose requiring state minimum age laws for factory work.

1842 – Massachusetts limits children to working 10 hours per day. Many states do the same but are not consistent in enforcing their laws.

1876 – The Working Men’s Party proposes prohibiting the employment of children younger than 14.
...
2013 – The International Labour Organization releases quadrennial estimates that reveals a drop of 47 million child laborers over the last four years internationally, leaving 168 million youth still in child labor and 85 million trapped in hazardous work.
stopchildlabor | Timeline of Child Labor Developments in the United States
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,481,336 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwruckman View Post
Its only free if your employer forgot to make you sign a no compete clause at the time of employment.

No compete clauses, put you in bondage to your employer, unless you move 100's of miles away to work.
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