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View Poll Results: What's a bigger issue in America now?
Frozen or stagnant wages (with increases by a few % points)? 17 50.00%
The cost of rent. 17 50.00%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2016, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Moose Jaw, in between the Moose's butt and nose.
4,991 posts, read 7,659,654 times
Reputation: 1755

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This is a huge issue and IMO, more of a crisis than the wages and need more attention than the new wage laws that are going into effect.
In a lot of places, like Seattle and San Francisco/San Jose, the jobs are plentiful and the economy is great. Sadly though, if you want to live close to these jobs and not tie up traffic even more horrendous than it already is, you can't. Unless you are one of the top 25% of wage earners (your own place, especially if you have kids), bought your place when it was more affordable, especially in Seattle's case, don't mind spending most of your income in rent alone or want to get a roommate or roommates.
I've heard that there are people that work for Google or Facebook in San Jose, that aren't programmers, but say, janitors or security workers, that make say 20 to 22 per hour, but have to drive in or take a train, from Stockton, since they cannot afford to live in SJ. Maybe they can't do the roommate thing, thanks do kids or dogs?
How, especially when we need to reduce pollution and congestion on the roads, can we do this, when it costs way too much to realistically live where most of the jobs are?
I am sure other cities have similar stories, where, except for the top 2%, wages have increased, less than 5% in the last 10 to 20 years, while in the case of Seattle, (city alone), average apartment rents have gone from 1100 back in 2010, to 1700 today. What is that? An increase of at least 30%?
What's the mentality, behind the landlords that live in Cities, like this? Pure greed? Especially if they have these places paid off already? I don't want to hear the "it's what the market will bear". Yes, I get that, there are people in the top 2% who will think very little of paying top dollar and over for an apartment. Do you forget though, landlords, that there are still 90% that cannot afford, without doing the things I listed earlier, the absurd rent increases, overnight? It's one thing if it's like this in a 20 year period or at least if wage increases, kept pace with rent increases. In most of America's major metro areas, they simply don't anymore.
While those could say, too bad, so sad, move to small town USA, where it's cheaper. Well, jobs generally are not plentiful. And if you make ok money in a big city, then move to say, (for example, Spokane from Seattle), you won't take the salary with you usually and actually could not be that much better off. $13.00 per hour may not even get you a room in Seattle, in Spokane, that could get you an studio or one bedroom apartment, but, I've heard, 1/2 the jobs there don't even pay that much.
So, in summary, what's more damaging, in America, wages that are basically stuck, or rents that are in some areas, out of control?
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:47 AM
 
41,823 posts, read 44,722,710 times
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Get into the rental business, problem solved.

Goddamn I'm a genius.
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Old 05-13-2016, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,084 posts, read 18,538,080 times
Reputation: 10320
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
...
So, in summary, what's more damaging, in America, wages that are basically stuck, or rents that are in some areas, out of control?
Neither. Limited housing stock.

[build more]
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Old 05-13-2016, 01:05 AM
 
12,340 posts, read 7,230,282 times
Reputation: 8745
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
What's the mentality, behind the landlords that live in Cities, like this? Pure greed? Especially if they have these places paid off already? I don't want to hear the "it's what the market will bear". Yes, I get that, there are people in the top 2% who will think very little of paying top dollar and over for an apartment. Do you forget though, landlords, that there are still 90% that cannot afford, without doing the things I listed earlier, the absurd rent increases, overnight? It's one thing if it's like this in a 20 year period or at least if wage increases, kept pace with rent increases. In most of America's major metro areas, they simply don't anymore.
Note that in the major cities, wage has not been stagnant but has been increasing. Is rent outpacing wage and inflation? Yes. Regardless, part of the reason rent is jumping so much is because many workers in these cities are making more money now than before, and can afford to pay more rent. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg.

It's quite an exaggeration to say only the top 2% or even 10% can afford the rent. If that's the case, the rent would come down because there would not be enough renters to fulfill the supply.

What I'm seeing is that people are making more efficient use of space - a boyfriend and a girlfriend might have lived separately in the past now move in together to save on rent; they may even rent a two-bedroom and share the unit with a friend. This means that before a two bedroom had two people living in it, now it has 3 to 4. The extra people warrants charging extra rent, combines with the already increasing rent, makes rent increases even more.

The landlords are not the problem, the problem is that the housing crash cut away many would-be new development; then the economy bounced back quickly and forces people to move to major cities (job centers), creating a demand that is too fast for the stagnant housing supply to catch up.

We are seeing a supply imbalance caused by the sudden demand and insufficient supply. Plus, rich foreigners are seeing US cities as a save place to park their money. The competition from both foreign and domestic, combine with our lack of supply, is forming a perfect storm.

This is not an easy problem to fix and definitely not one that can be blamed on one or two entities. I doubt one person has all the answers. Yes, we need to build more; but building takes years - it's a long term solution, yes; but we don't have a short term solution. Furthermore, one doesn't even seem possible.

.

Last edited by beb0p; 05-13-2016 at 01:17 AM..
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Old 05-13-2016, 01:56 PM
 
200 posts, read 138,101 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Note that in the major cities, wage has not been stagnant but has been increasing. Is rent outpacing wage and inflation? Yes. Regardless, part of the reason rent is jumping so much is because many workers in these cities are making more money now than before, and can afford to pay more rent. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg.

It's quite an exaggeration to say only the top 2% or even 10% can afford the rent. If that's the case, the rent would come down because there would not be enough renters to fulfill the supply.

What I'm seeing is that people are making more efficient use of space - a boyfriend and a girlfriend might have lived separately in the past now move in together to save on rent; they may even rent a two-bedroom and share the unit with a friend. This means that before a two bedroom had two people living in it, now it has 3 to 4. The extra people warrants charging extra rent, combines with the already increasing rent, makes rent increases even more.

The landlords are not the problem, the problem is that the housing crash cut away many would-be new development; then the economy bounced back quickly and forces people to move to major cities (job centers), creating a demand that is too fast for the stagnant housing supply to catch up.

We are seeing a supply imbalance caused by the sudden demand and insufficient supply. Plus, rich foreigners are seeing US cities as a save place to park their money. The competition from both foreign and domestic, combine with our lack of supply, is forming a perfect storm.

This is not an easy problem to fix and definitely not one that can be blamed on one or two entities. I doubt one person has all the answers. Yes, we need to build more; but building takes years - it's a long term solution, yes; but we don't have a short term solution. Furthermore, one doesn't even seem possible.

.

What I'm seeing is that people are making more efficient use of space - a boyfriend and a girlfriend might have lived separately in the past now move in together to save on rent; they may even rent a two-bedroom and share the unit with a friend. This means that before a two bedroom had two people living in it, now it has 3 to 4. The extra people warrants charging extra rent, combines with the already increasing rent, makes rent increases even more.

Chicken and Egg. Those people would not be shacking up so much if the rents were reasonable. The reason that it happens is due to high rental prices that are out of whack with wages/income.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:16 PM
 
12,340 posts, read 7,230,282 times
Reputation: 8745
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatpenny View Post
What I'm seeing is that people are making more efficient use of space - a boyfriend and a girlfriend might have lived separately in the past now move in together to save on rent; they may even rent a two-bedroom and share the unit with a friend. This means that before a two bedroom had two people living in it, now it has 3 to 4. The extra people warrants charging extra rent, combines with the already increasing rent, makes rent increases even more.

Chicken and Egg. Those people would not be shacking up so much if the rents were reasonable. The reason that it happens is due to high rental prices that are out of whack with wages/income.
Which is what I said.
.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: United States
12,396 posts, read 5,926,509 times
Reputation: 6119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatpenny View Post
What I'm seeing is that people are making more efficient use of space - a boyfriend and a girlfriend might have lived separately in the past now move in together to save on rent; they may even rent a two-bedroom and share the unit with a friend. This means that before a two bedroom had two people living in it, now it has 3 to 4. The extra people warrants charging extra rent, combines with the already increasing rent, makes rent increases even more.

Chicken and Egg. Those people would not be shacking up so much if the rents were reasonable. The reason that it happens is due to high rental prices that are out of whack with wages/income.
Rents can't be out of whack until apartments start going vacant. As long as the rentals are occupied, the rent is not out of whack.

I see this complaint in my area, and it is always coming from people that can't afford to live in the trendy neighborhoods that they covet.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Renton - Fairwood, Washington
759 posts, read 480,027 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
This is a huge issue and IMO, more of a crisis than the wages and need more attention than the new wage laws that are going into effect.
In a lot of places, like Seattle and San Francisco/San Jose, the jobs are plentiful and the economy is great. Sadly though, if you want to live close to these jobs and not tie up traffic even more horrendous than it already is, you can't. Unless you are one of the top 25% of wage earners (your own place, especially if you have kids), bought your place when it was more affordable, especially in Seattle's case, don't mind spending most of your income in rent alone or want to get a roommate or roommates.
Yep... I'm 41, single, and been living in Seattle metro for the last 3 years. I chose a 3 bedroom and 2 roommates because it's cheaper than a 1BR. My place is 1485 sq ft with 2 bath and just went to $1775 a month... utilities and cable/internet put the total around $2200 or so.

In Seattle the prices are even higher LOL... $1600 average 1 BR and $2100 2 BR?!?!? It's amazing to me how rents are so ridiculous here but I get around it with the 2 roommates. $900 each covers the rent, and I pay utilities. They get a deal saving off the costs of a 1BR and so do I.

I work in Seattle with a 25 mile one way commute and make $50k... which means I'm poor for this area. As said though... I do what I can to avoid being bent over by rent prices.
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Old 05-13-2016, 04:11 PM
 
44,539 posts, read 19,097,525 times
Reputation: 10495
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
This is a huge issue and IMO, more of a crisis than the wages and need more attention than the new wage laws that are going into effect.
In a lot of places, like Seattle and San Francisco/San Jose, the jobs are plentiful and the economy is great. Sadly though, if you want to live close to these jobs and not tie up traffic even more horrendous than it already is, you can't. Unless you are one of the top 25% of wage earners (your own place, especially if you have kids), bought your place when it was more affordable, especially in Seattle's case, don't mind spending most of your income in rent alone or want to get a roommate or roommates.
I've heard that there are people that work for Google or Facebook in San Jose, that aren't programmers, but say, janitors or security workers, that make say 20 to 22 per hour, but have to drive in or take a train, from Stockton, since they cannot afford to live in SJ. Maybe they can't do the roommate thing, thanks do kids or dogs?
How, especially when we need to reduce pollution and congestion on the roads, can we do this, when it costs way too much to realistically live where most of the jobs are?
I am sure other cities have similar stories, where, except for the top 2%, wages have increased, less than 5% in the last 10 to 20 years, while in the case of Seattle, (city alone), average apartment rents have gone from 1100 back in 2010, to 1700 today. What is that? An increase of at least 30%?
What's the mentality, behind the landlords that live in Cities, like this? Pure greed? Especially if they have these places paid off already? I don't want to hear the "it's what the market will bear". Yes, I get that, there are people in the top 2% who will think very little of paying top dollar and over for an apartment. Do you forget though, landlords, that there are still 90% that cannot afford, without doing the things I listed earlier, the absurd rent increases, overnight? It's one thing if it's like this in a 20 year period or at least if wage increases, kept pace with rent increases. In most of America's major metro areas, they simply don't anymore.
While those could say, too bad, so sad, move to small town USA, where it's cheaper. Well, jobs generally are not plentiful. And if you make ok money in a big city, then move to say, (for example, Spokane from Seattle), you won't take the salary with you usually and actually could not be that much better off. $13.00 per hour may not even get you a room in Seattle, in Spokane, that could get you an studio or one bedroom apartment, but, I've heard, 1/2 the jobs there don't even pay that much.
So, in summary, what's more damaging, in America, wages that are basically stuck, or rents that are in some areas, out of control?
"don't mind spending most of your income in rent alone"

I hate to brek your bubble but, this is NOTHING new!

"What's the mentality, behind the landlords that live in Cities, like this? Pure greed?"

How old are you, 20ish?

INSTEAD of making IGNORANT accusations and juvenile name calling, why don't YOU do some research and find out WHY the rent are so high.

I suggest you start with the taxes they pay and then the "regulations" they must follow.

Then learn about "supply and demand'
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Old 05-13-2016, 04:16 PM
 
11,087 posts, read 7,522,352 times
Reputation: 6387
Supply and demand.


There are only 2 answers: increase supply or decrease demand.
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