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I doubt the Protestants would mind this being a Catholic Christian nation...
Catholicism is a sect. But in my opinion, it is not Christianity, because they do not adhere to Biblical Christianity. That's why we had the Reformation. They have departed from the teachings of the Apostles many, many years ago. It was Constantine who picked the first "pope." Peter was not the first "pope" as Catholics like to say. In fact, Peter played a very minor role in the early church. Paul was the one who took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Not Peter.
It's the fundamentalist Baptists, usually the radical KJV-only Independent Fundamental Baptist group, that seems to push so loudly to make this a Christian nation i.e. Baptist nation. They would throw a fit if this became an Anglican Christian nation.
The article starts out almost reasonable, then quickly devolves into 'theocracy is actually better as long as it's the right one.' And maybe I shouldn't say devolve. The author probably doesn't believe in evolution...
Culturally we are a Christian nation, in the sense that we come from Christian Europe historically and have always had a majority Christian population. But that's it. The article suggests a Christian nation bases it's laws off the 10 commandments, which you'd honestly have to be stupid to believe this is the case. The first amendment and the first three commandments (all of which say the same thing if you ask me) are in opposition. Legally, according to the US constitution, I can believe in the Roman pantheon and it's perfectly legal; the 10 commandments would have me thrown in hell for eternity as an act of love, apparently.
Our laws are liberal, tracing their roots back to John Locke (seriously, read Locke then read the constitution and declaration of independence... the overlap is obvious, and I assure you, that overlap will not be found if you read the Bible). Culturally, we have a combination of that liberal enlightenment and Christianity. For the most part anyway. America is an enormous and diverse country, so our culture isn't really that easy to define.
It should also be noted that even courts have said in their rulings that "we are a Christian nation."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 10 Commandments come from the Torah, or the Old Testament, thus are JEWISH principles that have been adopted by the Christian faith.
THUS, America is NOT a Christian Nation, but a Nation founded upon JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.
Thank you. My only comment to your post is that we didn't "conquer," as there was no nation to conquer. We established colonies in what was largely an unsettled continent. The "American Indians" were not a nation. They were nomads, basically. Their was no "government." Therefore, we "conquered" no one (except we did fight the British for Independence and won).
Wow. Just totally dismissed a whole race of people.
The "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" part of the 1st Amendment referred to the establishment of one Christian sect over another. This is easily learned through a study of the Constitution, and our History. I have many books on the subject.
Your contention that the founders meant that only christians should have freedom of religion is demonstrably nonsensical, seeing that Jefferson at least was no christian - he specifically denied that jesus was anything other than a mortal man.
Im an Athiest and even I would say we are a Christian nation, since the US was founded by mostly Christians, or conquered by Christians. If we were conquered by Muslims as in much of the Middle east we would be a Muslim Nation.
If Charles "The Hammer Martel" had his hat handed to him at Tours France in 732 AD, we would have most assuredly joined GOD's most obedient .
05-20-2016, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
I think the article explained that. Did you read it?
I think you're wrong about the GOP, but I must ask, what is a "narrow fundamentalist interpretation of Christianity?" There is only ONE kind of Christianity, and it is based on the Bible and the Gospel of Jesus. Anything else is a fraud.
Seriously?
Christians span the whole gamut from fire and brimstone, hateful bigots who condemn anyone who doesn't agree with their belief system to open, welcoming congregations.
That's one of the bigger problems with the bible. It's filled with so much outright nonsense and so many internal inconsistencies and contradictions that groups of people with radically different beliefs can both claim to be following the bible and both can pick out all the requisite verses to justify their position.
Lynne Cheney's JAMES MADISON, A LIFE RECONSIDERED, points out that the constitutional convention argued vehemently about putting "Christian nation" somewhere in the constitution. It was overwhelmingly defeated. The subsequent events ended any speculation that religion is the foundation of our government.
Late in the eighteenth century, after a short, bitter war with the nation state of Tripoli, a treaty was devised under President Washington and signed by President Adams after he took office that read in Article XI:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
We further gave Tripoli $40,000 in Spanish gold to "seal the deal." The treaty was ratified in the Senate unanimously.
The early history of "Christians" in the colonial U.S. was filled with intra-religious persecution. Famously Anne Hutchinson and Roger Williams were banished from Puritan communities established in America for their own freedom but no one else's. Four Quakers that kept returning were hung. Catholics were despised because it had been the official religion of James II who had persecuted many non-Catholic faiths.
Further, there was a belief in physical force to instill religion. As African slaves were brought to America it was not uncommon to find the Christian masters beating paganism out of their "property." So the nation, even before it was founded, was already anything but a "free" place to worship. Only the colony of Pennsylvania made guarantees of religious freedom and attracted many to its borders. It is interesting to note that Pennsylvania was the site of the Colonial Congress and where that constitutional Congress crafted that document. Madison didn't think a Bill of Rights was necessary, but once it became clear that ratification was dependent upon it, he took it upon himself to craft them and relied upon Jefferson's opposition to Patrick Henry in Virginia when Henry wanted to levy a tax on all Virginians for the sake of the Anglican Church. That opposition resulted in Virginia State's freedom of religion act. And Madison, who may have suffered religious persecution himself. He had something that may have been epilepsy as he would be indisposed for days and which condition preachers and priests considered a result of demonic possession.
This country has never been a "Christian" nation. Many of the primary founders were Deists which is a far cry from Christian theist ideas. It has been a call by conservative Christians to "return" to our past which was supposedly closer to God. But careful study of religion in America reveals murderous selfishness and attempts to root out "nonconformists." It was thought to be admirable to beat the devil out of slaves.
What we have now is at least one presidential candidate who would make that Treaty of Tripoli a lie. And the unceasing attempt of the Christian fundamentalist to reverse every advance made in morality in this country since colonial America.
I am a theist. But it is as obvious to me as to any non-believer that an unbridled religious nation would attempt to control both political and religious thought, and force all acts to meet an unspecified religious rule of conduct.
Madison and Jefferson are rolling over in their graves.
Catholicism is a sect. But in my opinion, it is not Christianity, because they do not adhere to Biblical Christianity. That's why we had the Reformation. They have departed from the teachings of the Apostles many, many years ago. It was Constantine who picked the first "pope." Peter was not the first "pope" as Catholics like to say. In fact, Peter played a very minor role in the early church. Paul was the one who took the Gospel to the Gentiles. Not Peter.
That doesn't surprise me that you don't the Catholicism isn't Christianity.
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