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Old 05-21-2016, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,402 posts, read 7,026,365 times
Reputation: 11653

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shihku7 View Post
Are the employers of illegals all Republicans?

I work in houston Texas and often go to homes that are being remodelled or being constructed brand new, and all the workers are Spanish speaking of unknown citizenship status

But the employers are all white guys who I assume are Republicans. They don't exactly look like LGBT gender quality advocates, anyway.

Like most who employ illegals, contractors care more about green than red or blue.

Texas is a bit of a different animal than alot of other states. I used to live in San Antonio and due to the proximity to Mexico, there were many Americanized Hispanics there, so you could never just assume someone was illegal.
Heck, I knew Hispanics who were 3rd or 4th generation Americans and some barley spoke any Spanish.

Other states farther from the border, such as the Carolinas are a very different story though.

Last edited by FatBob96; 05-21-2016 at 07:13 PM.. Reason: Sp
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:04 PM
 
788 posts, read 508,493 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
If Trump becomes president, and he deports all the illegals, who is going to do the jobs they were doing? Americans don't really like farming, and bust your ass type jobs. We would have to find a way to pay Americans +$20/hr to butcher chickens, pick strawberries, assemble widgets, and perform other tedious, boring, repetitive in nature jobs. Or, just continue sending all our jobs to slave wage nations, and teaching Americans that welfare is an acceptable alternative to work.

How would that all work out? It's much easier to collect welfare than it is to devote your life to menial labor. And we are fast becoming a welfare nation. Some would say we are there already. And I don't think many Americans are going to like paying more for just about everything we buy.

I would rather see the illegals booted out, and companies forced to pay livable wages once more. But, I don't think everyone would be so happy about the outcome.
Your proposition is a LOSER. First of all, except for the ill-advised minimum (read MAXimum) wage, we don't tell companies how much to pay.

Second, if we did, all that would happen is that prices would go up to absorb the extra pay (and probably a bit more), and you would be back at (or behind) square 1 again. Market forces determine the value of things (including labor), no bums in DC or Sacto, or Austin, or wherever the states make their capitols at.

To answer your question about the bust-you-ass jobs, millions on welfare, would now see their benefits dry up, and their brows moisten with their own sweat and they an introduction to work. Those to inept or incompetent to improve themselves, will continue with the web-brow routine till.... Wealth doesn't fall from the sky (well, except for rain).
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:06 PM
 
788 posts, read 508,493 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by shihku7 View Post
Are the employers of illegals all Republicans?

I work in houston Texas and often go to homes that are being remodelled or being constructed brand new, and all the workers are Spanish speaking of unknown citizenship status

But the employers are all white guys who I assume are Republicans. They don't exactly look like LGBT gender quality advocates, anyway.
You know what happens when you assume??
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:08 PM
 
501 posts, read 359,485 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
What about a party committed to raising the minimum wage but wants amnesty and low deportation rates? Do you not find that contradictory?
The Democrats appear to see the presence of illegal immigrants as a form of wealth redistribution to begin with though. Ex: poor people from Mexico or Guatemala come to the US illegally and gain a better standard of living in the process.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,258,506 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by shihku7 View Post
What's weird about Trump's deportation plan is he never seems to mention the source of the issue: American employers who hire illegals. Usually these employers are Republicans too. He attacks the low-income immigrants but not the high-income US employers who employed them and profited off their labor.

Where there's a demand, there will be a supply. Illegals are the supply, and the American employer is the demand. According to what I've read, the right-wing Chamber of Commerce has lobbied repeatedly to weaken/neuter political attempts to pass E-verify, a federal work status verification program that has proven to be extremely effective at preventing illegals from getting work.

In Texas, the right-wing controls all branches of government. Despite this, the Republicans stopped themselves from passing mandatory E-verify laws for private employers and state contractors. They even put an exemption in their laws that prevented wealthy people with illegal immigrant maids from being punished by the law.

So what gives?

Trump's plan would deport 11 million illegals, but he appears to let the employers get off scot-free. Isn't that kind of screwed up?
The law has always been structured to require knowledgeable hiring of illegals. No one does that. They either accept ID that is arguably real or use an intermediate so they are not responsible. Rarrely some employer gets caught doing it badly enough that it sticks...but that is rare.

And likely the majority of illegals work in relationships that are not rationally detectible. Like fill in on a gardener crew who is paid in cash.

So no you are not going to be able to nail employers. The law simply does not make their behavior illegal.

You could change the law. But lots of luck with that. When hell freezes over.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:10 PM
 
501 posts, read 359,485 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
You know what happens when you assume??
FOX News repeatedly says that "job creators" are overwhelmingly Republican, and this would be presumably true in a red state like mine (Texas)

I saw some survey of small business owners and most were Republican there too

I guess I just have a hard time believing that left-wing Democrats are the majority of owners in the construction/remodelling industry here in Houston and hiring illegals.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:12 PM
 
501 posts, read 359,485 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Like most who employee illegals, contractors care more about green than red or blue.

Texas is a bit of a different animal than alot of other states. I used to live in San Antonio and due to the proximity to Mexico, there were many Americanized Hispanics there, so you could never just assume someone was illegal.
Heck, I knew Hispanics who were 3rd or 4th generation Americans and some barley spoke any Spanish.

Other states farther from the border, such as the Carolinas are a very different story though.
OK but are the employers Republicans or not?
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:13 PM
 
62,648 posts, read 28,833,717 times
Reputation: 18450
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
No, but you can ship the workers in. That's a pretty common thing in a lot of resort areas. A good chunk of guest workers from from South America and Eastern Europe.

The poster I was replying to said that if we got rid of the illegals already here the jobs would be outsourced. If that were the case it would be unlikely that more illegals would be shipped in. Legal immigrants perhaps but at least they wouldn't be a financial burden like illegal aliens are.
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:15 PM
 
501 posts, read 359,485 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The law has always been structured to require knowledgeable hiring of illegals. No one does that. They either accept ID that is arguably real or use an intermediate so they are not responsible. Rarrely some employer gets caught doing it badly enough that it sticks...but that is rare.

And likely the majority of illegals work in relationships that are not rationally detectible. Like fill in on a gardener crew who is paid in cash.

So no you are not going to be able to nail employers. The law simply does not make their behavior illegal.

You could change the law. But lots of luck with that. When hell freezes over.
Well doesn't that seem odd to you? The law protects the rich who hire illegals, but not the poor illegals who are hired by the rich? That's really corrupt to me.

And Not rationally detectible? E-verify is already available to all US employers. It's just not mandatory.

Mitt Romney proposed making it mandatory in 2012, which I thought made a lot of sense
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,685 posts, read 24,738,189 times
Reputation: 28369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Propulser View Post
Your proposition is a LOSER. First of all, except for the ill-advised minimum (read MAXimum) wage, we don't tell companies how much to pay.

Second, if we did, all that would happen is that prices would go up to absorb the extra pay (and probably a bit more), and you would be back at (or behind) square 1 again. Market forces determine the value of things (including labor), no bums in DC or Sacto, or Austin, or wherever the states make their capitols at.

To answer your question about the bust-you-ass jobs, millions on welfare, would now see their benefits dry up, and their brows moisten with their own sweat and they an introduction to work. Those to inept or incompetent to improve themselves, will continue with the web-brow routine till.... Wealth doesn't fall from the sky (well, except for rain).
I think the free market would dictate the wages, not the politicians. And the wages would almost certainly be pushed higher.
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