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Now to my question: when did you start having sympathy for victims of American bombings?
That's between Japan and their victims. None of my business.
They can't help themselves, Dane. Forget it.
None of our business, perhaps, and of course the enemy is the enemy for all practical purposes during war, but when you consider the difference between what most citizens in most countries want vs what their leaders THINK they want, you might find the source of at least some sympathy for farmers, women and children, families just wanting to get by in life, suddenly finding themselves on the wrong end of an atomic bomb due to no real doing of theirs.
And so I think Obama does well to point at how we all need to think awfully hard when it comes to getting beyond the brink. Almost always in these conflicts, if it were up to the everyday citizens, there would be peace rather than war. It's the "powers that be" who are always primarily responsible, so who shouldn't have some sympathy for the innocent bystanders killed no matter what the war and no matter what the country?
I've spoken about this at length with people here and don't get that impression at all. Most Japanese don't expect an apology but they do appreciate seeing an American president visit Hiroshima and display sympathy for the victims of the bombing.
I said, most Japanese don't expect an apology. I also talked to many Japanese I know, they don't view this as a good move because many dont want to be reminded of the history this way at all.
Yes, many Japanese at least took pride that it was the Americans defeated them. It is a fact. I honestly don't know exactly what you disagree with.
I visited the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin not too long ago. I suspect the Germans probably feel the same way about all that like some Japanese feel about this, as Americans feel about slavery, and so on...
Many claim these monuments to man's inhumanity to man are necessary to help us not repeat our mistakes. For others they serve as a form of closure and/or manner in which to acknowledge those wronged by these tragedies and injustices are not forgotten.
I find it hard to be critical either way, when it is not my direct family or loved ones involved. For victims and their families more directly affected, however, these memorials and ceremonies have great meaning in all variety of ways. A bit of respect and acknowledgment along those lines is what Obama is right to do, like maybe the rest of us should do too...
I visited the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin not too long ago. I suspect the Germans probably feel the same way about all that like some Japanese feel about this, as Americans feel about slavery, and so on...
Many claim these monuments to man's inhumanity to man are necessary to help us not repeat our mistakes. For others they serve as a form of closure and/or manner in which to acknowledge those wronged by these tragedies and injustices are not forgotten.
I find it hard to be critical either way, when it is not my direct family or loved ones involved. For victims and their families, however, these memorials and ceremonies have great meaning in all variety of ways. A bit of respect and acknowledgment along those lines is what Obama is right to do, like maybe the rest of us should do too...
I don't disagree with you. After all, the ONLY point I was making is that perception is reality. Some, many, whatever word you choose to use, would still view this as an apology tour. Is it fair, no. But just like the Bitburg controversy, it opened a can of worms.
My brother served in the USMC, he has been in combat, he fortunately has worked through all his emotions. My boyfriend, however, is still struggling with trust issue. (with certain religion) His grandpa fought the Japanese during ww2. Different generation of veterans, same loss, pain. They don't see what we see.
everybody who has seen combat has lost something, friendship, brotherhood, limbs, some even lost their common sense. Yes, understanding is a two way street. Healing only starts when it is not forced. I can see why some people who lost their loved ones in war would be offended by this visit. Their feeling should be respected as well.
So let people vent, no harm done.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 05-27-2016 at 10:51 AM..
I don't disagree with you. After all, the ONLY point I was making is that perception is reality. Some, many, whatever word you choose to use, would still view this as an apology tour. Is it fair, no. But just like the Bitburg controversy, it opened a can of worms.
My brother served in the USMC, he has been in combat, he fortunately has worked through all his emotions. My boyfriend, however, is still struggling with trust issue. (with certain religion) His grandpa fought with the Japanese during ww2. Different generation of veterans, same loss, pain. They don't see what we see.
everybody who has seen combat has lost something, friendship, brotherhood, limbs, some even lost their common sense. Yes, understanding is a two way street. Healing only starts when it is not forced. I can see why some people who lost their loved ones in war would be offended by this visit. Their feeling should be respected as well.
So let people vent, no harm done.
Yes, perception is reality when considering what people think is reality, but none of that should be confused with what is truth and what is not.
Obviously perception and/or reality is quite different for different people depending on their mental inclinations, but there is only one truth, only one universal reality, regardless what people may think or argue to the contrary...
You, for example, continue to have the perception of "apology," and continue to foster that perception with others by describing it so, but just as perception can just as easily be misperception, I think you mostly suffer from the latter given what facts we all share as to what Obama actually said and did.
Yes, perception is reality, but obviously that perception and/or reality is quite different for different people depending on their mental inclinations...
You, for example, continue to have the perception of "apology," and continue to foster that perception with others by describing it so, but just as perception can just as easily be misperception, I think you mostly suffer from the latter given what facts we all share as to what Obama actually said and did.
No, I don't view this as an apology tour. I said, MANY would still view this as an apology tour even if it is not.
I am Japanese/German/Hawaiian/Irish. I cringe whenever there is a ww2 talk because listening to people talking about my "ugly" culture is hard to swallow. but I deal with it. I understand what this tour can do to people like me. I let people vent, no harm done.
see? before you condemn somebody, maybe you should stop making this assumption about somebody. You don't know me. Like I said, perception is reality. this applies to you as well.
I don't disagree with you. After all, the ONLY point I was making is that perception is reality. Some, many, whatever word you choose to use, would still view this as an apology tour. Is it fair, no. But just like the Bitburg controversy, it opened a can of worms.
My brother served in the USMC, he has been in combat, he fortunately has worked through all his emotions. My boyfriend, however, is still struggling with trust issue. (with certain religion) His grandpa fought the Japanese during ww2. Different generation of veterans, same loss, pain. They don't see what we see.
everybody who has seen combat has lost something, friendship, brotherhood, limbs, some even lost their common sense. Yes, understanding is a two way street. Healing only starts when it is not forced. I can see why some people who lost their loved ones in war would be offended by this visit. Their feeling should be respected as well.
So let people vent, no harm done.
You keep claiming perception is reality. It is not. As far as the military, it is a small percentage of the worlds population. I fail to see how your brother & your boyfriend have anything to do with a presidential visit to Hiroshima.
You keep claiming perception is reality. It is not. As far as the military, it is a small percentage of the worlds population. I fail to see how your brother & your boyfriend have anything to do with a presidential visit to Hiroshima.
It is just an example. The point I am making is that even if some people who view this as an apology tour, I can understand why.
Millitary might be a small percentage of the world population, but the whole country fought ww2, there are many still suffering from the pain of losing their loved ones. This is the point I am making. So people will vent however they want to. Everyone heals at their own pace.
obamabots are obamabots to the end. How terribly, terribly sad to think like they do.
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