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You claim not to dislike Jews. I think you do, based on this post. See highlighted portions.As far as Britain, despite the events of 1774-83 we are them, they are us. We are connected by blood, culture and language. Is a country about to be squashed a "coward"?The difference is that we fought ourselves into a quagmire by fighting a "half-war." Churchill was our WW II leader, and FDR the stentorian voice.
There is a good debate to be had their....good points on both sides.
Actually, during the run-up to WWIi it was the liberal Roosevelt who found the conservative America First movement as a huge obstacle to his agenda to aide Great Britain and prepare Americans for conflict.
The "America First" movement was an excuse. Given Roosevelt's popularity if he had exercised any kind of leadership he could have gone over their heads, and that of Senator Borah, and gotten a Declaration of War out of Congress. Of course that pathetic excuse for piece of turd that FDR was could not do that. As I pointed out above Winnie did the leading and not FDR.
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Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
An interesting thread to see revived. We're currently dealing with a pandemic that has a death count roughly on par with WWII (and it's not stopping).
When asked to take some collective action to curb the losses and fight this particular enemy, to sacrifice in the interest of the greater good - I've not been impressed by the conservative response. (Being polite, here.)
Off topic and different problem but we had lockdowns in response to the pandemic during the spring. Look at what's happening now; it did no good. Is it your concept to take futile steps so that it appears to be "collective action"? More here, Public Health and Security Theater; Parallels Between Covid 19 and September 11. Excerpt:
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
In the case of Covid, the early focus, in heavily stricken areas was "flattening the curve" so that hospitals wouldn't gel up and cease functioning. I get that. But when we padlocked outdoor tennis and basketball courts, something is wrong. Same with closing many businesses which can operate socially distanced.
We learned by mid-April that serious illness from Covid was largely, though not entirely, related to known risk factors. Yet governments persisted in tightening restrictions, until veritable rebellions in places such as Michigan and Wisconsin forced at least limited reopening.
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In the U.S. our approach is security theater. We make people go through tangled lines at airports and lobby entrances to buildings, in the name of "security. This is political correctness, plain and simple. We are strangling critical parts of our cities rather than smashing the terrorists.***********
In short, productivity loss and public inconvenience should be minimized, not maximized for theatrical purposes.
The "America First" movement was an excuse. Given Roosevelt's popularity if he had exercised any kind of leadership he could have gone over their heads, and that of Senator Borah, and gotten a Declaration of War out of Congress. Of course that pathetic excuse for piece of turd that FDR was could not do that. As I pointed out above Winnie did the leading and not FDR.
Off topic and different problem but we had lockdowns in response to the pandemic during the spring. Look at what's happening now; it did no good. Is it your concept to take futile steps so that it appears to be "collective action"? More here, Public Health and Security Theater; Parallels Between Covid 19 and September 11. Excerpt:
The fact is public opinion was strongly against interventionism and certainly against sending American soldiers to die in European wars. Roosevelt had to tread carefully.
Yes, Churchill was the leader who recognized the danger of Hitler from the beginning. He also strongly recognized the need to get the United States in the war.
As has already been pointed out it is the conservatives who are spreading death and disease as we have a virus that will kill more Americans than were killed by the Axis forces in WWII.
One of the great historical debates to this day remains whether Harry Truman was justified in ordering the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki even though over a million Americans would have died in an invasion of Japan.
However, looking at the Bernouts and Hillary supporters and other liberals today, they wouldn't have chosen one of these choices (though if they had to they would probably put the lives of Japanese civilians over that of American soldiers.)
If liberals had run America during WW2, they wouldn't have demanded the unconditional surrender of Japan and Germany. Instead of choosing between the atomic bombings and a US invasion of Japan, they would have let General Tojo's remain in power and negotiated with them, probably after the Battle of Okinawa, or maybe even after Iwo Jima since Okinawa was Japanese territory before the WW2 invasions. This would have have the Imperial Japanese regime in power to potentially rebuild its military and threaten America again.
A liberal Democrat government (a Bernie Sanders/Obama/HIllary type administration) would likely have also not demanded Germany's unconditional surrender. They would have negotiated with Hitler after liberating France and the Netherlands. They may even have negotiated a deal after the Battle of the Bulge. In this scenario the Soviets alone would have defeated the Nazi regime and instead of East and West Germany and the Berlin airlift, etc, we would have ended up with all of Germany occupied by the Soviets and turned into a Soviet puppet communist regime, with Soviet forces on the French and Dutch borders, within striking distance of the UK.
The problem today is that we no longer utterly defeat our enemies. The Korean War ended with a peace treaty and the region remains tense today as a result. We could have bombed North Vietnam into defeat with limited U.S. casualties if we had firebombed Hanoi like Dresden and Leipzig in WW2. Most of the opposition to the Vietnam War wasn't out of concern for U.S. casualties. It was sympathy for the communist enemy as evidenced by how soldiers were treated by protesters upon returning to America.
We were also utterly devastating Saddam's army in Desert Storm when the West stopped the attack without pushing into Baghdad and installing a pro-Western government in Iraq. They were concerned about the enemy soldiers dying on the Highway of Death. If Saddam had been deposed then, there would have been no need for a US military presence in Saudi Arabia that would eventually motivate Osama bin Laden to attack us on 9-11. We also refuse to Israel completely defeat Hamas in Gaza and pressure them to negotiate cease fires with that Muslim terrorist group.
Japan and Germany were utterly defeated and surrendered conditionally. And they no longer cause us any problems today.
Originally Posted by Listener2307 Diplomatic timidity from both FDR and Chamberlain, of Britain, led to WW2. That point is covered completely in "In The Garden of Beasts". The war could have been prevented in the mid 30's but was not.
For that matter, overly harsh punishment of Germany for its part in WW1 led to WW2.
It's all part of history to me. Currently, I don't like liberals and the reason I don't is because they are a bunch of nasty control freaks. If the media did not carry water for them and ignorant people did not vote for them they would not win as often as they do.
20M people voted for the first time in 2020, and their vote was guided by the media, not some profound knowledge of history.
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
This assumes that the United States in 1938-1939 was the same country that it is today. You are offering up a completely anachronistic interpretation. The United States had traditionally been neutral in European politics until World War I, only getting involved in that conflict when our vital interests were threatened. Even then, we got back out as quickly as feasible.
The country was absolutely, positively against being involved in the coming war. All you have to do is look at the strong isolationist outcry.
The post concerned the attitude in 1933-34, when the war could have been prevented. After the summer of 34, when Hitler had his adversaries in Germany killed, all was lost. No one in Germany was going to stop him and outside efforts were futile.
The liberals of yester-year, Wilson and FDR, are a much different group than the liberals of today, in that the liberal actions of those years were necessary. Today's actions are not necessary and do not create a better America.
The entire point of my post is to say (rightly, I think) that diplomatic timidity allowed WW2 to happen. And I charge Obama/Biden with diplomatic timidity. They let bullies run amok. Trump stuffed many of those bullies back in their own country and no case has been, or could be, made that firm diplomacy has created more danger for the world than the waffling timidity of Obama/Biden.
And Trump ran in 2016 on the premise that the liberals were continuing to run forever wars.
Anyone who repeals the 2001 AUMF probably deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. That provides a legal avenue to engage in a war when a Congressional authorization and a UN order can't be secured to create a veneer of legality on an act of aggression by the United States.
People keep trying to rewrite history here to suit their politics.
The fact is that the Democrats are not an opposition party as they rubberstamp just about everything by the other party. The Republicans blocked the Obama administration from getting a war authorization for Syria after the other UN Security Council members rejected his request.
The post concerned the attitude in 1933-34, when the war could have been prevented. After the summer of 34, when Hitler had his adversaries in Germany killed, all was lost. No one in Germany was going to stop him and outside efforts were futile.
The liberals of yester-year, Wilson and FDR, are a much different group than the liberals of today, in that the liberal actions of those years were necessary. Today's actions are not necessary and do not create a better America.
The entire point of my post is to say (rightly, I think) that diplomatic timidity allowed WW2 to happen. And I charge Obama/Biden with diplomatic timidity. They let bullies run amok. Trump stuffed many of those bullies back in their own country and no case has been, or could be, made that firm diplomacy has created more danger for the world than the waffling timidity of Obama/Biden.
Please, Trump is the worst President in my lifetime when it comes to coddling authoritarian leaders.
You claim not to dislike Jews. I think you do, based on this post. See highlighted portions.As far as Britain, despite the events of 1774-83 we are them, they are us. We are connected by blood, culture and language. Is a country about to be squashed a "coward"?The difference is that we fought ourselves into a quagmire by fighting a "half-war." Churchill was our WW II leader, and FDR the stentorian voice.
Please quote if there is aword jews in my reply 149 or 150.
Tom lennox said we refuse isrEl to completely destroy hamas. But he doesnt acknowledge the fact that the 2 hostile countries syria and libya who are bigger threats were destroyed .
You and him bring pro israeli jewish views and when given a diffetent viewpoint you dub them as “dislikeres” and anti semites?
Just read my post again.just tell me if they were fiction or facts.
Baruch was a banker/financier. He has himself bragged that he ran the show on behalf of ww. I will postpone he link if i get it.
and he would never have had the guts to use the atomic bomb.
FDR could not handle the isolationists, which sharply spiked the death count of the Holocaust.
FDR lacked the guts to let the St. Louis dock and have the Jewish refugees enter US land.
We are all safer because FDR died and Truman admirably was the POTUS with the guts to make the hard decisions.
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