Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
there not a single person alive today that think slavery was a good idea, the whole country, every single person are on the same side as you, but they still have to start an argument every day, every minute about something that happen 150 years ago. what part of, we are on the same side as you, that you dont understand.
nothing today is about slavery, nothing, but you keep bringing it up, every minute, what you want, all the white people to leave, all the money in the nation. what do you want. you already have everything else
there not a single person alive today that think slavery was a good idea, the whole country, every single person are on the same side as you, but they still have to start an argument every day, every minute about something that happen 150 years ago. what part of, we are on the same side as you, that you dont understand.
nothing today is about slavery, nothing, but you keep bringing it up, every minute, what you want, all the white people to leave, all the money in the nation. what do you want. you already have everything else
And yet here we always see redneck white people waving it around and wanting things like National White People Day and such. People just need to let the flag of a defunct country go, the war is over, the South lost.
Ignorance is bliss they say.
Your juvenile name calling aside, The "flag" being talked about was NOT the flag of the South.
It was a Virginia battle flag. Nothing more, nothing less.
The rest of the South probably NEVER saw it.
All the hoopla about the "'Stars and bars" is BECAUSE a racist group, the KKK STOLE the flag and used it.
And as usual we have the doable standard about what can and cannot be said about race.
To me 'Redneck' is JUST as bad as "nig ger" (note if i spelled it correctly the mods would remove it and use stars instead,
BLM say ALL kinds of things about whites. So do many other black leaders and all of that is OK but, heaven forbid someone have different view then the PC crowd.
To hell with the 1st Amendment when it suits you and them.
We have a "special" day for a lot of others, why NOT a day for "whites'? Equal treatment and all!
Well, whenever people are flying that flag, claiming it's "southern heritage", whenever you have some country singer singing "if the South woulda won", then we aren't over it. as soon as the Confederate flag did since it has always been a symbol of slavery. which sought to keep and maintain slavery. That is why many people do not like it. Links have been posting confirming such. This is why the Klan and other bigots pick that flag.
" the Confederate flag did since it has always been a symbol"
And many on here are he SAME who say the American flag is just apiece of cloth and does NOT deserve any special treatment.
Sez you. If I want to point out that slavery was practiced in the North and that it was practiced by all races and ethnicities throughout the world for thousands of years, I will point that out.
So you're suggesting that the great sin was not the fact that all races and ethnicities throughout the world practiced slavery for thousands of years, it was rather that people wanted to secede in order to continue practicing it.
In other words, we can ignore 99.99999999% of the human crime of slavery, but should be obsessed with the remaining 0.00000000001% of it.
That's not a very strong argument to make.
Blacks went north only to be greeted with racism, segregation and ghettoization. Eventually they were put on welfare and entered into a cycle of dependency, crime and hopelessness that has not changed even with affirmative action policies. The North to me represents industrialization, exploitation, and the destruction of community -- both white and black. The North is all about money, money, money. The South was never just about that.
The South was largely settled by Scots who had spent centuries fighting brutal wars against the English and, before that, the Romans. There were also English aristocrats who settled in Virginia. The South was a hard-scrabble way of life for most white people. And yes, it was poor. So what? They weren't living on welfare and burning down their own neighborhoods.
You shouldn't. But let's face it. Lincoln did not fight the war to end slavery. He fought it to prevent the South from trading independently with other countries. It was all about money and control by northerners. And those greedy northerners came down south as carpetbaggers, raping, pillaging and murdering. In the meantime, we're just supposed to forget the hundreds of thousands of young southern men who died in the war -- even if we are descended from them. All because they fought to do what the northern colonists had done against the English. Demand their independence. It's really hilarious to listen to northerners celebrating the American flag when it, also, was a flag of slavery from the very beginning.
Exactly.
And the Klan hardly exists anymore except in the fevered imaginations of white liberals.
Me, too.
I'm descended from John Stark, a revolutionary war general. If I can take pride in that, I see no reason why southerners can't take pride in their ancestors who fought in a war. Losing a war doesn't change that. On the other hand, if your ancestor was a cruel slave master, and nothing more, that might be something you would not take pride in. There were, by the way, plenty of northerners who profited from slavery in the South. Let's not kid ourselves about that!
In a free country, the flag belongs wherever people want to fly it.
The Confederate flag incident happened in this nation. Yes slavery has been practiced in other nations. What does that have to do with the Confederate states seceding from the Union as a last attempt to keep slavery around?
Yes, Blacks were greeted with racism in the North. They faced that and worse in the South. Last time I checked, Blacks went through ghettoization in southern cities as well. As for "put on welfare", you say that as if they didn't have a choice. Blacks could have easily said no to welfare. Times get tough, people do what they can to survive. Blacks living in cities everywhere in the USA were dealing with crime, hopelessness, and dependency. At least in northern cities, there were no Jim Crow laws. The north to you represents industrialization and exploitation. Blacks were exploited all over the South in the fields. Look up sharecropping. That industrialization provided Blacks with jobs. It is the reason my grandparents moved to the North. My father was born and raised in the North. Guess what he got out of it. 2 college degrees. Much better education system than he would have gotten in Mississippi. And this is considering he went to one of the worst high schools in his city.
So what if the North is about money? I don't care. For my grandparents, the North represented an escape from Jim Crow. It represented more opportunities than they would have ever had in the South. The South was about using Jim Crow to keep and maintain a social/racial hierarchy to keep Blacks "in their place", a hierarchy that had been in place since slavery.
And there were riots in the South as well. And the most murderous cities in the USA were often in the South: Memphis, Birmingham, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Atlanta.
I know Lincoln initially didn't fight to end slavery. That isn't the point. The point is that the South was so scared of slavery being abolished that they wanted secession. It didn't matter that Lincoln had not planned on it. What mattered is what went on in the minds of southern elites and slave owners. Fear. Fear of a way of life coming to an end. As someone who is descended from slaves, why should I not be glad the South lost?
Furthermore, the northerners did more for Blacks during the Reconstruction days than southerners ever did. Northerners were going south, starting schools for Blacks, helping them get out of a backwards culture that had been imparted onto them from slavery. This is something I've read in Thomas Sowell's essay "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". He shows parallels between the "ghetto Black culture" and the "redneck culture". Again, why should I be sad that the North won?
Yes, there were northerners that profited from slavery. But why wasn't the North fighting to keep slavery?Why only the South?
Personally, the Old South represents backwards ways, an archaic racial hierarchy rooted in slavery, poverty, a way of living not conducive to progress and prosperity.
The Confederate flag incident happened in this nation. Yes slavery has been practiced in other nations. What does that have to do with the Confederate states seceding from the Union as a last attempt to keep slavery around?
Nothing if the reason that the South wanted to secede in order to keep slavery. But it wasn't. This is rhetoric that originally spewed from folks who wanted to paint a ghastly picture of a section of the country for political gain. It was nothing more, nor less. But it tugged at heart strings so strongly that it quickly became accepted as truth. We see this in similar form today in politics when politicians set out on a campaign to drive someone else into the dirt for their benefit. Slavery was common everywhere then.... That doesn't make it right by any stretch, but it shouldn't be used as the reason why the South wanted to secede. They wanted to maintain a way of life and protect their family without Government interference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
So what if the North is about money? I don't care. For my grandparents, the North represented an escape from Jim Crow. It represented more opportunities than they would have ever had in the South. The South was about using Jim Crow to keep and maintain a social/racial hierarchy to keep Blacks "in their place", a hierarchy that had been in place since slavery.
What do you mean, "so what?" The war was started over money. Plain and simple. The government wanted control over the entire country. Divide and conquer. While I wont argue that Southerners needed to understand that slavery in any form is wrong, they were simply going with what they were raised to believe to be correct. Working with them to educate folks on freedom would have eventually succeeded if done correctly. Probably with a lot less dire consequences than the route chosen. But hindsight in all instances is 20/20. We learn from it and we grow as a country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
And there were riots in the South as well. And the most murderous cities in the USA were often in the South: Memphis, Birmingham, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Atlanta.
So..... where are those cities now? Baltimore, LA, etc..... and who started them? It wasn't us Southern folk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I know Lincoln initially didn't fight to end slavery. That isn't the point. The point is that the South was so scared of slavery being abolished that they wanted secession. It didn't matter that Lincoln had not planned on it. What mattered is what went on in the minds of southern elites and slave owners. Fear. Fear of a way of life coming to an end. As someone who is descended from slaves, why should I not be glad the South lost?
Wrong again. Do your research on history and learn WHY the South wanted to secede. Lincoln ran for office on the premise that Southerners were all slave drivers. It was a political move... nothing more. Crops in the South were being exploited by the Government through taxation on amongst other avenues. The Federal Government was financially supporting many of the Union states and had control over those because of the money it was providing. They bought these states' votes and used slavery as the vehicle to run on. The South simply made the declaration that they did not want this support because it forced control over to the Government. You can read some of this if you look up "The Declaration of Causes" that some Southern states submitted to the Government. In this, they go as far as to agree that slavery was going to eventually be abolished from ALL states... to INCLUDE the Southern states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Furthermore, the northerners did more for Blacks during the Reconstruction days than southerners ever did. Northerners were going south, starting schools for Blacks, helping them get out of a backwards culture that had been imparted onto them from slavery. This is something I've read in Thomas Sowell's essay "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". He shows parallels between the "ghetto Black culture" and the "redneck culture". Again, why should I be sad that the North won?
The North nor the South won anything. The government won and because of the way it was spun, it more severely divided the country than any other time in history. And it was all political.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Yes, there were northerners that profited from slavery. But why wasn't the North fighting to keep slavery?Why only the South?
Again I urge you to do your research on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Personally, the Old South represents backwards ways, an archaic racial hierarchy rooted in slavery, poverty, a way of living not conducive to progress and prosperity.
This just goes to show that you are lacking greatly in an education as to the fallacies of the Government and what their true intent was. A nation divided is going to struggle. Who better to step in and "save us" than the very entity that divided us? A unified people could overthrow the Government. But divided they could not.
This person who brought out the flag was wrong for doing so. Anything that we do in which a wedge can be driven between our races is only strengthening the Government's position to keep us separated. The sad thing is that too many of us choose to be blind to this. Every time someone brings up race in any form or fashion we just become a weaker society.
If your ideas about the symbolism of Confederate flag aren't based on the issue of slavery and the civil war....then what's it based on?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It wasn't us Southern folk. 
