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Old 07-03-2016, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,023 posts, read 27,413,633 times
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At this point in time, Putin is far more important to Israel than Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Love him or hate him, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s military intervention in Syria unquestionably upended Middle Eastern politics. Putin supported Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, established several military bases in Syria, created a de-facto Russian-Shi’ite axis, confronted Turkey and forced the West to re-engage with him.
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Old 07-03-2016, 09:19 AM
 
29,390 posts, read 9,570,247 times
Reputation: 3438
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
The United States doesn't need allies.
Interesting notion this one...

Maybe it's the word "need" that explains, but the United States and the world is certainly better off when more countries rather than less are aligned and partnering toward a better world in general, whether through security, international trade, economic growth and all efforts toward peace that simply cannot come about unilaterally.
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Old 07-03-2016, 09:24 AM
 
29,390 posts, read 9,570,247 times
Reputation: 3438
The article offers more than a few reasons, but these quoted below are troubling, because although most world leaders tend to put their own agenda over those of others, the Israelis are famous for putting self-interest above even some of the most basic humanitarian considerations, much like they courted the Nazis along with whomever else would listen to give birth to Israel in the first place.

"Netanyahu wants to keep the Golan Heights

During his visit to Moscow in April, the Israeli leader was clear that he does not plan on scaling back Israeli control of the Golan Heights region, describing control of the territory as “a red line”. Although formally part of Syria, the Heights have been under Israeli control since 1967.

Russia is the Syrian government’s strongest ally and a close relationship with the Kremlin certainly strengthens Netanyahu’s hand should Israel seek international recognition of its control over the region.

Putin can reduce U.S. standing in the Middle East

Russia was unsuccessful in attracting Western regional partners such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia to back the pro-Assad front in Syria. However, a partnership with U.S.-ally Israel improves his country’s credentials as a diplomatic power at the expense of the U.S.

“Russia and Israel have been collaborating more on security matters for some time now, even though the U.S. remains Israel’s primary security partner,” McDowell says. “For Russia, developing ties with Israel is an important part of its overall effort to gain and maintain an enduring strategic foothold in the Middle East while also reducing U.S. influence in the region.”
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:09 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,635,084 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
The article offers more than a few reasons, but these quoted below are troubling, because although most world leaders tend to put their own agenda over those of others, the Israelis are famous for putting self-interest above even some of the most basic humanitarian considerations, much like they courted the Nazis along with whomever else would listen to give birth to Israel in the first place.

"Netanyahu wants to keep the Golan Heights

During his visit to Moscow in April, the Israeli leader was clear that he does not plan on scaling back Israeli control of the Golan Heights region, describing control of the territory as “a red line”. Although formally part of Syria, the Heights have been under Israeli control since 1967.

Russia is the Syrian government’s strongest ally and a close relationship with the Kremlin certainly strengthens Netanyahu’s hand should Israel seek international recognition of its control over the region.

Putin can reduce U.S. standing in the Middle East

Russia was unsuccessful in attracting Western regional partners such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia to back the pro-Assad front in Syria. However, a partnership with U.S.-ally Israel improves his country’s credentials as a diplomatic power at the expense of the U.S.

“Russia and Israel have been collaborating more on security matters for some time now, even though the U.S. remains Israel’s primary security partner,” McDowell says. “For Russia, developing ties with Israel is an important part of its overall effort to gain and maintain an enduring strategic foothold in the Middle East while also reducing U.S. influence in the region.”
Look up your history. Israel has had control of the Golan Heights for more years than Syria did. The Golan Heights were originally part of the Palestine Mandate post WW1. The British sliced it off and transferred it to the French Mandate who then attached it to Syria in 1946. Look up the original Palestine Mandate map as it was supposed to go to the future Jewish State. Israel will not give it up. Period.
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:15 AM
 
29,390 posts, read 9,570,247 times
Reputation: 3438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Look up your history. Israel has had control of the Golan Heights for more years than Syria did. The Golan Heights were originally part of the Palestine Mandate post WW1. The British sliced it off and transferred it to the French Mandate who then attached it to Syria in 1946. Look up the original Palestine Mandate map as it was supposed to go to the future Jewish State. Israel will not give it up. Period.
I don't need to look up this history and the history is not the issue here as much as the manner in which you judge it...

Interesting, for example, you point out that Israel has had control "for more years than Syria did." Interesting, because usually the focus is on who had control when, in the beginning, and what happened to change that control. Maybe you should look up the history of Syria and who controlled the Golan Heights since the beginning, right? Israel, after all, didn't even exist until 1948, right?

What the British did continues to be a problem and certainly does not serve as any sort of international compass to judge what is ultimately right or wrong. Israel unilaterally annexed the Golan Heights in 1981, a move never recognized internationally. No matter?

"Israel will not give it up" you say?

Perhaps not voluntarily and no doubt at some ongoing cost to Israel and world peace, but there was a time during past peace talks when then Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak had offered to return most of the Golan to Syria, suggesting to me anyway that even Israeli leadership has had to recognize she is not altogether in the right here and/or that Syria's claims are not entirely unjustified.
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,635,084 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I don't need to look up this history and the history is not the issue here as much as the manner in which you judge it...

Interesting, for example, you point out that Israel has had control "for more years than Syria did." Interesting, because usually the focus is on who had control when, in the beginning, and what happened to change that control. Maybe you should look up the history of Syria and who controlled the Golan Heights since the beginning, right? Israel, after all, didn't even exist until 1948, right?

What the British did continues to be a problem and certainly does not serve as any sort of international compass to judge what is ultimately right or wrong. Israel unilaterally annexed the Golan Heights in 1981, a move never recognized internationally. No matter?

"Israel will not give it up" you say?

Perhaps not voluntarily and no doubt at some ongoing cost to Israel and world peace, but there was a time during past peace talks when then Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak had offered to return most of the Golan to Syria, suggesting to me anyway that even Israeli leadership has had to recognize she is not altogether in the right here and/or that Syria's claims are not entirely unjustified.
First look up "Internationally recognized". Who wrote it and when. As it is not "International Law".

In Peace negotiations, Israel has offered up numerous items to test the waters in order to see what the other side will offer for a Peace deal to work out. But when those nations require them to be done as preconditions in order to have negotiations then the offer drops off the table. Gaza was that way. It was a precondition. The international community stood behind it (not in front ). And instead of starting nation building, the Arabs started firing rockets into Israel within hours of the last Jew leaving. And the international community left back to their homes and soapboxes. So where is your international community in relation to Gaza? Are they there? Are they aiding them in building a society based on commerce? I dare the UN to put feet on the ground and fill Gaza with their military abilities in order to foster Peace? But the UN has proven their worthlessness when 100's of them left Syria and crossed into Israel a few years ago.
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Old 07-04-2016, 04:18 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,068,231 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Interesting notion this one...

Maybe it's the word "need" that explains, but the United States and the world is certainly better off when more countries rather than less are aligned and partnering toward a better world in general, whether through security, international trade, economic growth and all efforts toward peace that simply cannot come about unilaterally.
I've got nothing against friendships that benefit us for trade and efforts toward peace. But that's a far cry from being an ally.

We have friendly neighbors and live in the most peaceful hemisphere in the world. We've got large oceans on our flanks. We don't need "allies" that aren't a part of the Americas. It's enough that we maintain cordiality with non American nations. Things like mutual defense pacts are an absurdity.

Nations in Europe, Asia and Africa NEED to forge alliances because they're surrounded by multiple nations on their borders and there are bound to be conflicts. But those conflicts need not be our concern as long as they don't harm our standing or damage our national interests.

That's where I come down. I can't think of a single non North or South American nation that's worth being an ally with.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:01 AM
 
29,390 posts, read 9,570,247 times
Reputation: 3438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
First look up "Internationally recognized". Who wrote it and when. As it is not "International Law".

In Peace negotiations, Israel has offered up numerous items to test the waters in order to see what the other side will offer for a Peace deal to work out. But when those nations require them to be done as preconditions in order to have negotiations then the offer drops off the table. Gaza was that way. It was a precondition. The international community stood behind it (not in front ). And instead of starting nation building, the Arabs started firing rockets into Israel within hours of the last Jew leaving. And the international community left back to their homes and soapboxes. So where is your international community in relation to Gaza? Are they there? Are they aiding them in building a society based on commerce? I dare the UN to put feet on the ground and fill Gaza with their military abilities in order to foster Peace? But the UN has proven their worthlessness when 100's of them left Syria and crossed into Israel a few years ago.
Your logic is difficult to follow, because first you argue there is no justification that Gaza be returned to Syria due to an equally baffling logic having something to do with whether Israel or Syria has been in control of Gaza the longest period of time. Of course you also dismiss the fact that Israel's control of Gaza is not internationally recognized. Now it seems there is justification to return Gaza to Syria under certain required conditions, and somehow you are also surprised there is violence over the claim of this land that also includes all that water so vital to the area. Really?

Yes, let's be sure to criticize the U.N. in the process. No good staunch Israeli right or wrong argument should go without...
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:20 AM
 
45,343 posts, read 26,914,776 times
Reputation: 23725
Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Perhaps because the American leftist in the Democratic Party have turned their back on Israel.
correct answer
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:24 AM
 
2,528 posts, read 1,649,714 times
Reputation: 2611
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Your logic is difficult to follow, because first you argue there is no justification that Gaza be returned to Syria due to an equally baffling logic having something to do with whether Israel or Syria has been in control of Gaza the longest period of time. Of course you also dismiss the fact that Israel's control of Gaza is not internationally recognized. Now it seems there is justification to return Gaza to Syria under certain required conditions, and somehow you are also surprised there is violence over the claim of this land that also includes all that water so vital to the area. Really?

Yes, let's be sure to criticize the U.N. in the process. No good staunch Israeli right or wrong argument should go without...
Return Gaza to... Syria? What? Man, you are totally clueless.
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