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it makes much more sense to me for cops/SWAT to storm the club instead of waiting 3 HOURS, than to expect hostages to rush the gunman. If the cops didn't do it, with all their training, how can anyone expect terrified civilians to do it? not everyone is a Jason Bourne or James Bond.
I don't blame the victims, but Dbones isn't wrong about the power of numbers. I watched a short doc about a place that holds these defense classes, and it is exactly what the guys said. Look for an escape first, but if you're in an inescapable situation someone should be the spark for others to fight. Look for an opportunity and take him down. Once one person does it, others will join in. Look at what happened on the Paris train when the three Americans tackled the terrorist and others joined in the attack as well. It takes a spark.
" Was 3 hours too long for Orlando police/SWAT to storm the club? "
I wasn't there, so it's hard to say. Because these aren't normal hostage situations the thinking has shifted to storming much more quickly than in the past. I tend to agree, but I don't want to judge these folks just yet.
Agreed. Getting all the necessary police resources in place and organized, becoming aware of the tactical situation, and carefully approaching the building to prevent unnecessary deaths/injuries to civilians and the police, themselves, was a waste of time.
They should have lobbed some grenades, rushed in, shot from the hip, and maybe they would have accomplish something.
[oh...wait ]
The Israeli police rushed in to the Tel Aviv mall quickly and stopped it before it could really get started. This was a bad reaction, though I do feel that the threat of a suicide vest made them overly cautious. If all those people were calling and texting their family on the phone, surely some of them were in contact with police. They could have told them if the guy was wearing a bomb vest.
well they need to revise that now that the word is out - all you need to do is claim you have a bomb and you'll be left alone for hours to do whatever you want.
I doubt that would be true in New York City, or Houston, or Boston, or any number of larger towns where they routinely train for these types of situations.
light went on- listen to the victims who got out- how they got out- our distant friend Amanda was taking selfies - you hear the shots and she stands there not understanding- what she is hearing- the music was turned off and people went where they could- I do not get how many exist there were but the mgr opened what he could. and then hid behind a barricaded door- clubs/bars are traps. fire or this they are sealed up to keep anyone out-
I agree, they make perfect targets for this type of thing. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. There needs to be more exits in these places, for fires and events like this.
I don't blame the victims, but Dbones isn't wrong about the power of numbers. I watched a short doc about a place that holds these defense classes, and it is exactly what the guys said. Look for an escape first, but if you're in an inescapable situation someone should be the spark for others to fight. Look for an opportunity and take him down. Once one person does it, others will join in. Look at what happened on the Paris train when the three Americans tackled the terrorist and others joined in the attack as well. It takes a spark.
I thought about the train attack too, but those guys were soldiers, and trained to fight. What one of them said has stuck with me, though. In an interview, he said he turned to his buddy and said 'Kill, or be killed. You ready?" Hope I'd have those kind of guts in a bad situation, but you never know. I don't think anyone in the Paris attacks tried to stop the shooters, either.
no, it's not their choice. it's the job of the police to not wait 3 whole hours before they strom the place. That's THEIR JOB.
I agree. The police non-response is appalling. I was simply responding to your post saying it is out of line suggesting people should defend themselves.
Understand that this has become the new norm in most police operations the last two years. They will be criticized for a few weeks for the slow response, but it will fade after that.
If they had gone in quickly, and the attacker(s) set off bombs or bystanders were shot in the gunfire exchange or any number of failures that could be blamed on an overly militaristic response, you can guarantee there would have been a DOJ investigation and Orlando PD would have come out two years down the road with a consent decree.
We are trending towards a world that demands a minimal police response, and sending SWAT into a situation like this causing casualties is far more than a minimal response. Police will only continue to second guess more, and mistakes like this will become even more common.
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