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Its nice that you assume a person with a gun is going to hurt someone.
Well, if I encounter you...and you have a gun pointed at me, it's NOT because I'm at YOUR house...because I don't go to other people's houses...so you must be breaking into mine--or out on the street--or at my place of work.
Why? Don't you believe we should interpret the words of the Constitution according to the rules and principles the lawmakers probably meant for us to use? The historical record, of the making of the Constitution, contains an abundance of evidence that the lawmakers assumed that the common law rules of construction would be applied to the text of the Constitution to ascertain the will of the lawmakers at the time they made it.
Show us some evidence that the lawmakers meant for us to gather the meaning of the Constitution from the letters and documents from the time. I will then show you overwhelming evidence that the lawmakers wanted us to use the common law rules of construction.
What makes you think the Constitution should be interpreted according to a letter written by a dude who didn't even participate in the making of the Constitution?
that dude as you refered to him as is Thomas Jefferson, and the other quotes are from the same group of men that had great influence in the drafting of the constitution.
"The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46 "
- James Madison
and yes, james madison was there during the drafting of the constitution
BEN FRANKLIN (member, Continental Congress, signed Declaration of Independence, attended Constitutional Convention, 1st Postmaster General)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Respectfully Quoted, p. 201, Suzy Platt, Barnes & Noble, 1993)
again, ben franklin at the drafting of the constitution.
ALEXANDER HAMILTON (Member of Continental Congress, Aid-de-camp to General Washington, commanded forces at Yorktown, New York delegate to the Constitutional Convention, wrote Federalist Papers, 1st Secretary of Treasury for George Washington, wanted 'President for life')
"Little more can reasonably be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped." (Federalist Papers #29)
WILLIAM GRAYSON (Senator from Virginia in first Congress under the United States Constitution)
"Last Monday a string of amendments were presented to the lower house; these altogether respect personal liberty..." (in letter to Patrick Henry)
ZACHARIA JOHNSON (delegate to Virginia Ratifying Convention)
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." (Elliot, 3:645-6)
it is not hard to find writings on the subject by our founding fathers, and the members of congress and delegates from the 13 states during the convention for the writing of this document.
Well, if I encounter you...and you have a gun pointed at me, it's NOT because I'm at YOUR house...because I don't go to other people's houses...so you must be breaking into mine--or out on the street--or at my place of work.
So you assume everyone with a gun points it at people?
that dude as you refered to him as is Thomas Jefferson, and the other quotes are from the same group of men that had great influence in the drafting of the constitution.
"The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46 "
- James Madison
and yes, james madison was there during the drafting of the constitution
BEN FRANKLIN (member, Continental Congress, signed Declaration of Independence, attended Constitutional Convention, 1st Postmaster General)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Respectfully Quoted, p. 201, Suzy Platt, Barnes & Noble, 1993)
again, ben franklin at the drafting of the constitution.
ALEXANDER HAMILTON (Member of Continental Congress, Aid-de-camp to General Washington, commanded forces at Yorktown, New York delegate to the Constitutional Convention, wrote Federalist Papers, 1st Secretary of Treasury for George Washington, wanted 'President for life')
"Little more can reasonably be aimed at with respect to the people at large than to have them properly armed and equipped." (Federalist Papers #29)
WILLIAM GRAYSON (Senator from Virginia in first Congress under the United States Constitution)
"Last Monday a string of amendments were presented to the lower house; these altogether respect personal liberty..." (in letter to Patrick Henry)
ZACHARIA JOHNSON (delegate to Virginia Ratifying Convention)
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." (Elliot, 3:645-6)
it is not hard to find writings on the subject by our founding fathers, and the members of congress and delegates from the 13 states during the convention for the writing of this document.
Thank you.
I dont have the patience to search that stuff out for people that should read it before they assume they know what they are talking about.
No doubt tomorrow there will be several posts about how antiquated those quotes are & how its a different world. Nevermind that the same things have been said for centuries with, each new society thinking its the superior moral civilization.
The fact is the laws & issues we deal with are as old as civilization & as long as theres been civilization theres been those that want a weak people.
Some for personal gain & some just because theyre sheep.
But always the thing comes full circle because the only right way is to let people have the opportunity to provide for themselves. Guns, or arms, is just one facet of "Life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness"
Your a joke. What grade? Any asshat can enlist & let someone else direct their every move. How that makes you above the same constitution you swear to defend is beyond me.
I'm very proud of those that serve my country & take their duty seriously. But I'm very ashamed of men in uniform that serve themselves. You fit very nicely in the second category.
You serve very well to illustrate the dangers of keeping profesional soldiers. You think because of your military experience you have some higher knowledge of what it means to be a patriot?
A Patriot doesnt need money to defend his country, a patriot does not support unAmerican law nor subjugate their countrymen. Theres many patriots in this thread,, you Sir aint one.
QED Over compensation. "At what grade?" Commissioned officer in the Regular Navy.
"We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;"
---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.
What does that have to do with ascertaing the meaning of the Second Amendment?
Quote:
"The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.
Now, there's an interesting comment that was actually made during the making of Constitution. I was not familiar with that one. I thank you, my friend. I've been laughed at for pointing out the Constitution granted the government no power over "arms."
Does Madison ever explain exactly what the right to keep and bear arms was? Also, do you know if Madison ever used the phrase "keep and bear arms?"
I take that to mean you have no evidence that the lawmakers meant for us to gather the meaning of the Constitution from "the letters and documents from the time" or "a letter written by a dude who didn't even participate in the making of the Constitution."
Quote:
Your the one trying to nullify our founding documents.
You're the one ignoring the lawmakers wish that we use the common law rules of construction to ascertain the meaning of the Constitution.
Quote:
Show me where they put an expiration date on the constitution or anything in it.
Every word in the Constitution must be given an effect. The first clause of the Second Amendment implies that the right to keep and bear arms arises only if a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of the free state. A well regulated militia is necessary if there is no large standing army. However, today we have a large standing army. It may be reasonably argued that the right to keep and bare arms terminated when we established a large standing army.
However, we must keep in mind that the lawmakers gave the government no power to regulate arms in the Original Constitution. Therefore, it may not really matter what the Second Amendment means.
I take that to mean you have no evidence that the lawmakers meant for us to gather the meaning of the Constitution from "the letters and documents from the time" or "a letter written by a dude who didn't even participate in the making of the Constitution."
You're the one ignoring the lawmakers wish that we use the common law rules of construction to ascertain the meaning of the Constitution.
Every word in the Constitution must be given an effect. The first clause of the Second Amendment implies that the right to keep and bear arms arises only if a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of the free state. A well regulated militia is necessary if there is no large standing army. However, today we have a large standing army. It may be reasonably argued that the right to keep and bare arms terminated when we established a large standing army.
However, we must keep in mind that the lawmakers gave the government no power to regulate arms in the Original Constitution. Therefore, it may not really matter what the Second Amendment means.
actually, it's the standing army that's unconstitutional. The Army must be funded for a period of no longer than two years for offensive actions ONLY. At the end of that time, Congress can authorize funds again...for a period of two years. They never intended for us to HAVE a standing army.
the standing army that's unconstitutional...They never intended for us to HAVE a standing army.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To...raise and support Armies...provide and maintain a Navy;
Last edited by FlashTheCash; 05-11-2008 at 09:40 AM..
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