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View Poll Results: Should we have stricter gun-ownership laws?
Yes 114 28.08%
No 292 71.92%
Voters: 406. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-11-2008, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084

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Quote:
Originally Posted by futexan View Post
As a newcomer to this thread,I did not have the time to read all previous comments.

As for the debate on Constitution,my belief is that Consitution is the actual Will of the People at any time. We all know the now-inactive clause of the Con. which states that the value of a black is 3/5 of the value of a white,or something like that.

At this moment,the majority of Americans believe in the right to posess guns.

The heart of the issue is that the anti-gun people & politicians want to impose to us their will in a dictatorial way.

We don't want to mandate armament to them.

They want to mandate disarmament. to us.

We want freedom to choose our method of self defence,they want to exercise tyranny upon us & deprive us of our tools for self defence.

It is a clash of characters,the pro-gun vs the anti-gun,only the anti-gun is a tyrant who wants to force his will upon us. We don't want to force our will upon him.
Just as you don't need to DRIVE to be able to TRAVEL, you do NOT need to use a gun for self-defense. Guns are NOT the only available weapons at your disposal.

 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:21 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Just as you don't need to DRIVE to be able to TRAVEL, you do NOT need to use a gun for self-defense. Guns are NOT the only available weapons at your disposal.
But just as you have a right to the best tools for travel you have a right to the best tools for defense. Even moreso, we have a right as free people to travel & use machinery but its subject to any laws that are passed because they never protected automobiles specifically, just freedom, however, once you learn how to read you can check out the constitution where they protected the right to keep & bear arms.

Wether or not you choose to admit it you & I, all of us in this discussion knows that a gun is easily the most effective weapon you can have at your disposal should you need to defend yourself. But thats not the primary reason its protected. As you also know its protected to enable the people as a group to defend their communities, cities, states or nation.
I'm sorry but your karate chops are meaningless in the context of this discussion.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
But just as you have a right to the best tools for travel you have a right to the best tools for defense. Even moreso, we have a right as free people to travel & use machinery but its subject to any laws that are passed because they never protected automobiles specifically, just freedom, however, once you learn how to read you can check out the constitution where they protected the right to keep & bear arms.

Wether or not you choose to admit it you & I, all of us in this discussion knows that a gun is easily the most effective weapon you can have at your disposal should you need to defend yourself. But thats not the primary reason its protected. As you also know its protected to enable the people as a group to defend their communities, cities, states or nation.
I'm sorry but your karate chops are meaningless in the context of this discussion.
I think a gun is just as effective as an automobile--NOT effective. Automobiles entail operator error. Guns entail operator error. Either is subject to mechanical failure.

So, walking, or riding a horse, is more effective--you're more in control of your travel in those modes, and don't have to be concerned about mechanical failure. If you walk...you don't even have to worry about COST.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 10,417,852 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I think a gun is just as effective as an automobile--NOT effective. Automobiles entail operator error. Guns entail operator error. Either is subject to mechanical failure.

So, walking, or riding a horse, is more effective--you're more in control of your travel in those modes, and don't have to be concerned about mechanical failure. If you walk...you don't even have to worry about COST.
riding a horse you are NEVER in complete control, your horse has a brain as well, and both walking and riding a horse is prone to mechanical failures as well, broken legs, and worse can happen during these modes of transportation. There is almost certain a cost for both of these modes as well, you tend to eat more if you are walking more, and a horse needs stable and pasture as well as food and upkeep costs.

guns and other arms are the same, they do require upkeep costs, they require maintenance to keep in mechanically safe order, and they require training to properly use one. But as stated, this was a specific thing mentioned in the constitution, it has more meaning than travel to the founders of our country.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,261,360 times
Reputation: 4937
If I walk - I have to worry about buying shoes

If I ride a horse - I have to worry about feeding and watering the horse

Both entail an expenditure of money

Then there is the element of the cost of time - how much is your time work.

I could take 8 or 9 months to ride a horse cross country.

Or, I can drive a car cross country in say, 5 days

Or, better still, I can fly in an airplane and be cross country in 5 hours

Which of the above is a better use of time?
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,066,605 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Yes...for a period of TWO years...

not intended to remain in force forever. Same with the Navy...after the Revolutionary War, what happened to the Continental Navy? Every war, they've had to build up strength...they cut back after every war, and aren't particularly worried about having a strong defense.
I'm going to need to see some basis for this. I was in the Navy and it makes a lot of commitments that extend beyond two years.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:39 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,232 posts, read 8,415,423 times
Reputation: 2583
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
I'm going to need to see some basis for this. I was in the Navy and it makes a lot of commitments that extend beyond two years.
Whats done today & whats permitted constitutionally are two different things.
Even you should have realized that by now.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noahma View Post
riding a horse you are NEVER in complete control, your horse has a brain as well, and both walking and riding a horse is prone to mechanical failures as well, broken legs, and worse can happen during these modes of transportation. There is almost certain a cost for both of these modes as well, you tend to eat more if you are walking more, and a horse needs stable and pasture as well as food and upkeep costs.
Your horse might know better than YOU do, however...so that's fine. I admitted that a horse entails a greater cost to you, but you are going to be eating regardless of whether or not you walk.

I eat ONE meal a day. That's all.
 
Old 05-11-2008, 07:15 PM
 
415 posts, read 610,957 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Yes...for a period of TWO years...
Explain to us how that prohibits a standing army.

Quote:
not intended to remain in force forever. Same with the Navy...
Too bad the lawmakers didn't put that in the Constitution.

Quote:
...after the Revolutionary War, what happened to the Continental Navy? Every war, they've had to build up strength...they cut back after every war, and aren't particularly worried about having a strong defense.
How does that change the Constitution to prohibit a standing army?
 
Old 05-11-2008, 07:18 PM
 
415 posts, read 610,957 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
I'm going to need to see some basis for this. I was in the Navy and it makes a lot of commitments that extend beyond two years.
True. But Congress has an opportunity every two years to terminate funding for those commitments.
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