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There is indeed a "Natural Right" to self-defense, think not, try to kill a snake, it will bite you.
Perhaps the reason the Founders placed the snake on so many of their flags?
Now there is nothing to say that some inbred worthless piece of trash won't try to take that right away, by force.
Perhaps this is the reason our Founders instituted a government in their new country, some 200+ years ago?
Now governments have been just as guilty of taking these same Natural Rights away as the worthless individuals above have.
Perhaps this is why the Founders ensured We the People would have both the power over the government and the means to retain that power, by force if needed?
The Founders of this nation faced only two choices.
1) Submit to the King and Parliament, their abstract and selfish wills.
OR
2) Fight for their Natural Rights.
When they tossed the British out of this country, they had an opportunity to do to something which had never been done, and has yet to be repeated.
They gave away the nation they had won, they placed the keys of ownership of this nation squarely in the hands of "We the People".
They wanted to give us what they did not have, that being a "Third Option".
They were determined to never saddle us with having to chose between those two choices they faced, knowing both are bad, they gave us the Third Choice, of being in control of our government and being in control of our destiny.
"Mr. Franklin, what kind of government did you give us". "A Republic, if you can keep it"
They gave us every tool to retain the power over this nation, that we might need, for any circumstance imaginable........except for one.
They said there is no way for them to secure our Freedoms and Liberties, our Natural Rights, if we did not have the 'Hearts and Minds" for Liberty. If we did not want it, they could do nothing to secure it for us.
Each generation is tasked with "keeping if they can".
There is indeed a "Natural Right" to self-defense, think not, try to kill a snake, it will bite you.
Perhaps the reason the Founders placed the snake on so many of their flags?
Now there is nothing to say that some inbred worthless piece of trash won't try to take that right away, by force.
Perhaps this is the reason our Founders instituted a government in their new country, some 200+ years ago?
Now governments have been just as guilty of taking these same Natural Rights away as the worthless individuals above have.
Perhaps this is why the Founders ensured We the People would have both the power over the government and the means to retain that power, by force if needed?
The Founders of this nation faced only two choices.
1) Submit to the King and Parliament, their abstract and selfish wills.
OR
2) Fight for their Natural Rights.
When they tossed the British out of this country, they had an opportunity to do to something which had never been done, and has yet to be repeated.
They gave away the nation they had won, they placed the keys of ownership of this nation squarely in the hands of "We the People".
They wanted to give us what they did not have, that being a "Third Option".
They were determined to never saddle us with having to chose between those two choices they faced, knowing both are bad, they gave us the Third Choice, of being in control of our government and being in control of our destiny.
"Mr. Franklin, what kind of government did you give us". "A Republic, if you can keep it"
They gave us every tool to retain the power over this nation, that we might need, for any circumstance imaginable........except for one.
They said there is no way for them to secure our Freedoms and Liberties, our Natural Rights, if we did not have the 'Hearts and Minds" for Liberty. If we did not want it, they could do nothing to secure it for us.
Each generation is tasked with "keeping if they can".
How are we doing?
Wow. Very different approach to the subject. Excellent points.
As we keep relying / allowing political officials to legislate our morality and dictate each and every thing we can, and more importantly can't do, we lose a little of our freedoms and liberties. As we blissfully skip along down the yellow brick road, happy to have someone else do our "dirty" work, we risk losing our American identity. The Emerald City / Utopia we desire could end up a prison where freedom, of choice, is replaced by freedom from choice.
Very good post, funfaler. Unfortunately as of late, we are not doing very well at all. Hopefully, next election, the Republicans will remember their true Conservative base and will win back the House. If they continue acting like Liberal Democrats, nothing will be gained. Indeed, We The People need to speak at the voting booths and make them understand that THEY work for US.
Very good post, funfaler. Unfortunately as of late, we are not doing very well at all. Hopefully, next election, the Republicans will remember their true Conservative base and will win back the House. If they continue acting like Liberal Democrats, nothing will be gained. Indeed, We The People need to speak at the voting booths and make them understand that THEY work for US.
As a matter of fact, yes. You cannot say the vast majority of Liberal Democrats are not anti-gun. It's a fact. Just as it's a fact that Conservatives tend to be pro-gun. You ask why, I say why not. If the shoe fits...
it is a mostly unrelated issue to this thread, but it is pretty common knowledge to those that are not religiously fanatic about their party that both the dems and the repubs are not as a group out there for our good anymore.
they are out there for reelection and nothing more–as a group. individually, there are a few in both parties that i respect, but they are all riding sinking ships.
OK, this is a "guns" thread, so I will try to keep that as a focus.
Gun ownership, hammer ownership, home ownership, all are Liberties, personal ones at that.
The question about 'how are we doing' is something which each "owner" of this nation needs to be asking themselves, more regularly now.
However, if you feel out Liberties are being threatened (now it may be the "right" who feel it, 5 years ago the "left" ) you must ask from where is this threat coming from. The answer in both cases is from the federal level.
This is not just my opinion, but in fact the opinion of 36 state legislatures. 36 different state legislatures have passed or are looking at various 10th Amendment resolutions, essentially telling the federal government they have over stepped their Constitutional mandates/limitations, and have encroached upon those issues/areas reserved for the People and States. Tenth Amendment Center*|*Working to limit the power of the federal government
Not wanting to derail this OP, let's talk about how this impacts gun ownership. The state of Montana has passed a law which basically bars the jurisdiction of the BATFE and the federal government laws on firearms manufactured in MT for the sale and use solely within MT. They are challenging the use of the "Commerce clause" which the feds have used to regulate everything.
This is not unlike the federal 55 mph speed limit law. States wanted to reinstate their previous laws, and the feds said they can't, federal law. Well the states told the feds they had no business regulating internal state laws. The feds agreed, but threatened to withhold federal highway funds. I believe it was CO which basically pointed out that the highway funds are collected by the states, at their pumps, and if the fed withholds these funds back to the state, they would just not send them in, in the first place. The feds had no teeth, we have states passing their own speed limit laws.
The same is about to happen with firearms.
Now if a state wishes to have draconian gun laws (there is very serious argument that the feds actually have an obligation to protect the People from such, but a different argument), then those who live in those states, who don't want to be subject to such laws can move to a better state.
This is precisely what the Founders had in mind. Competition among the states and between the states and the feds, to provide Liberty for the People. Let the People use each state against the others for Liberty, and the states against the feds for Liberty. Oppression can not survive when People have a choice, why do you think oppressive regimes close their borders, don't allow people to leave or travel?
I would love to delve into the avenue for a solution, but feel it may be too far off base for this thread.
Needless to say, the security of our Liberties, including the Liberties of gun ownership, is going to be reliant upon the states.
We the People can have a very large impact, in very short order, upon the political environment within our states. The states can have a much larger impact upon our federal government than we can as individuals (the Founders knew this, thus the system of government they set up, for us).
You care about Liberties, then getting active on the State level will be critical. Like the course, then sitting back and doing nothing is your course of action.
Briefly on the parties, they are what we have.
However, imagine this for a moment. Your federal rep will have 10-15 "state reps" within his/her district. When the federal rep comes home to campaign, they contact that state party and asks them to set him up with speaking engagements and donors.
If the state level party people are under pressure from the state's People, they can influence the actions of the fed rep, and even threaten to with hold their support for them. These are elected folks, on the state level, they can have substantial influence over the voting actions of the People they represent, especially if those People are engaged and influencing the state rep. The same people vote for both the fed and state reps, who do you thing knows better what the People want and would win in a disagreement between these two?
If a fed rep gets a letter from say 8 of the 10 state level reps in his district back home, directing him to take a specific action, he will sit up and listen, as these people represent 80% of his votes for re-election, and these politicians will have much longer memories than the people. In fact, these state reps can remind the People at the worst time of the fed reps betrayal.
Yep, your state reps are your keys to retaining your Liberties, if you are so interested.
The "party" hurdle is much smaller to scale on the state level than the fed level.....
I have continually made comments about partisan arguments and partisan identities and still believe that the arguments are a waste of energy as most of us are not in the extremes that bleeding heart liberal and neocon apply to. OK. Enough said. So many of you have made great points about liberty and freedom, cornerstones of American life and I do not want to detract from that. I apologize for the tangential reference.
My dad, a lifetime NRA member was always saying, "Be careful what you wish for. Today they ban cigarettes and tomorrow...?" As each thing is taken away, no matter how positive or negative you feel about it, it is gone. And it will likely never "come back". This applies to the liberties we all too often take for granted.
I am economically nearly socialist and personally nearly anarchic. I see no conflict with being a gun owning leftist.
Maybe it's just a question of who you shoot at first.
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who feel it, 5 years ago the "left" 
Off topic? My bad!
