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No distinction is made between suicides and murder.
Say what? Did you read the article?
"Two-thirds of gun deaths in the US – roughly 20,000 each year – are gun suicides, and states where gun ownership is higher see dramatically higher gun suicide rates. Many of the victims are older white men."
Also BTW, lots of people include the number of suicides by gun as part of the problem of gun violence. Whether that is right or wrong, appropriate or not, is a matter of perspective, concern and/or focus that depends largely on the person, but you are correct that "apples and oranges" are best not confused in these regards. However, as long as it is noted whether the statistics do or do not include suicides, there should be no confusion.
You are the one who needs education. You obviously have no ability or will to learn.
No, it doesn't not sound like "shoot to kill."
Like I said many times, nobody in the world is or can be trained to shoot at legs. Please name one if you know someone. It's legally problematic and tactically impossible and suicidal.
Legs have vital organs too. One nip on the artery, you are dead within minutes. Same goes with arms. People died of very superficial wounds like a .22 in the arm, and people routinely live through direct heart shots and head shots.
Shall we shoot off people's fingers then?
My word, dealing with this sort of reading comprehension is a real challenge...
Check the record! I/we had moved on from the shooting at the legs, right???
Still, your reply above is to this I wrote, "FYI: POLICE PROTOCOL -- If the suspect points a gun at someone, or reaches for a gun in a way that indicates they're going to shoot, police are allowed to fire. Police are trained to shoot at "center mass," or a suspect's torso where many vital organs are located."
"Center mass" is not the legs or fingers! And if shooting at "center mass" isn't shoot to kill in your world, then just what planet do you live on, because for us humans here on planet Earth, getting shot in the "center mass" area is a likely certain death.
You can be on the terror watch list, the "no fly list," not be able to board a plane, but you can buy all kinds of explosives, poison, gasoline, knives you want, drive any car you want, walk close to any person and into any kindergarten you want?
But guns? Oh, hell no, no guns. You can't have guns. That's just pure evil!
Clever, but I think you miss the point. People with evil intent just tend to favor the use of guns to perpetrate their evil. Sorry, but that's just the fact. Please don't shoot the messenger...
Perfect example in Turkey. Poor Cop tackles perp, perp drops weapon. Struggle ensues and perp detonates explosives. He should have shot the perp to begin with.
"Center mass" is not the legs or fingers! And if shooting at "center mass" isn't shoot to kill in your world, then just what planet do you live on, because for us humans here on planet Earth, getting shot in the "center mass" area is a likely certain death.
The primary intent of aiming to center mass is avoid missing completely.
If the intent was to kill, training would be for head shots. Torso shots from a handgun very frequently do not kill, and more often than not do not kill quickly enough to prevent the assailant from returning fire himself (ought to hamper his aim, though).
So the real answer is conservatives don't think that gun violence is a problem and in thinking such, shouldn't be addressed proactively...
There is a way to address it. But libs don't want to acknowledge it because it has nothing to do with controlling guns, and it will disproportionately incarcerate minorities.
According to the FBI... 71% of those arrested for violent gun crimes have been arrested before for similar violations. We let these recidivists "negotiate" with our justice system to plea bargain down to misdemeanors in many cases. We release them too quickly back into society to create more victims.
We should be sending these gun crime offenders to Federal prison for lengthy sentences. They need to be segregated from the law abiding citizens of the U.S.
I'm tired of hearing about violent crime perpetrated by criminals with long rap sheets.
Our early release program needs to stop. If sentenced to 5 years, they need to be incarcerated for every day of that 5 years.
Can you imagine the difference it will make in our violent gun crime stats if we shave off nearly 71%?
Your link doesn't work for me so I'll throw out my opinion.
1. Better education for everyone. We as a society need to teach people that violence isn't the first means of resolution to a problem. We also need to teach tolerance. It's too easy and too commonplace for someone who doesn't like a person's choices to stand against them. This starts in the home from a young age. Very good idea. I actually remember reading a program like this was started somewhere on the east coast in middle schools and supposedly it showed a lot of progress. Unfortunately I think it ran out of funding or something.
2. Less media coverage. The media sensationalizes gun violence and violence in general. This becomes appealing to aggressive youth and they soak up the media coverage like a sponge without yet being able to form their own thoughts and opinions. Absolutely ! And the media coverage that is provided is based on facts, not speculation and not labeling certain firearms for what they aren't.
3. Required gun safety courses. Just as we are required to take a driving test to get a license, we should be required to take a gun safety course before being allowed to purchase a firearm. Being caught without this li In MI, as a CPL holder one is required to take a class. I think a yearly training would also be a good thing. Too many people get their CPL, buy a gun and then it sits. If you own one, you need to know how to be safe with it, how to store it, and hopefully it never comes to this other than targets, be able to use it.
4. Hold people accountable for their actions. Enough with the PC baloney. If you commit a crime, regardless of your race, political stance, gender, or religion you should be held accountable. I would recommend mandatory counseling and psychological treatment for those who commit crimes to try and get to the root cause of what sparked those actions to prevent future reoccurrences. If deemed psychologically unfit to own a firearm, the person would be denied legal means of obtaining one. Exactly. No more plea bargains. Start making a firearms offense something to be afraid of. Use a firearm in an assault, robbery, car jacking etc. , mandatory 10 years for the firearms violation, added to whatever the maximum for the offense. If the firearm is an illegal one, and extra 10 years. No bargaining. Teens caught with illegal weapons get 10 years, juvenile facility and when they turn 18 adult prison for the remainder. Adults with prior felonies caught with an illegal firearm , 10 years.
Also and I know I am going to get some flack over this one. Here in Michigan I feel we have a pretty solid set up for purchasing, owning and selling firearms except for private sales of long guns. I feel it should be the same as handguns. Either CPL holder to CPL holder or thru and FFL. Any purchase requires either a purchase permit (background check) , a valid CPL and at the moment of sale a NICS call , this goes for handguns or long guns.
And one other thing, stop with the stupid labels off these firearms. "large capacity" magazines, and "assault" rifles.... just stop. Selectable fire rifles are already highly restricted and if the individual that wants one goes thru the months long process and minimum of $15k to get one, I am fine with that. Other than that , all we have are semi auto, bolt action, lever action and single shot rifles. They are all the same , some being more powerful than others (and not the evil black rifle like the media wants you to think). As far as high cap mags....there is no way that blanket statement is viable. Some firearms come with 10 shot mags others with 15 , yet others with 5. It is what it is. Limiting capacity will do nothing, anyone with a sense of ingenuity and some duct tape can make up what they want.
And lastly. We need to lift some of the HIPPA regulations so that information can be shared with the NICS. Currently if you go to your doctor and tell him you have been dreaming about taking people out with a firearm, he cannot share this info with the NICS. That is not good. Also if you are on any kind of meds to control a personality disorder, I hate to say it but you are ineligible to purchase a firearm. I know the constitution states "shall not infringe" but if someone can be turned down for military service due to personality disorders then the same goes with firearms ownership. This last one does need some work though, because it does infringe on rights.
I think if our country could adopt these somewhat simple solutions we would see a huge decrease in firearms violence.
My word, dealing with this sort of reading comprehension is a real challenge...
Check the record! I/we had moved on from the shooting at the legs, right???
Still, your reply above is to this I wrote, "FYI: POLICE PROTOCOL -- If the suspect points a gun at someone, or reaches for a gun in a way that indicates they're going to shoot, police are allowed to fire. Police are trained to shoot at "center mass," or a suspect's torso where many vital organs are located."
"Center mass" is not the legs or fingers! And if shooting at "center mass" isn't shoot to kill in your world, then just what planet do you live on, because for us humans here on planet Earth, getting shot in the "center mass" area is a likely certain death.
Again, the astonishing ignorance.
Not sure which world you live in but certainly not in our human world. Shooting at center mass is NOT an intent to kill but an intent to be on target and to stop. If the aggressor doesn't stop the aggression, shoot until he stops. That's how our human world works, how all the US deadly force laws are written and how our hundreds years of case laws were decided.
Death is an unfortunate consequence of deploying deadly force. It is called deadly force not for jokes.
Hence there are clearly defined conditions when we can deploy deadly force - it's the same for police and civilians. Please note the "person" below refers to a "reasonable person," a well-defined legal concept, not an "ignorant person."
Typically:
1. The person actually believes that deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, and
2. The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to agree, and
3. The person using deadly force was not a instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, and
4. Force was not excessive.... greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.
So yes, the person, police and civilian, shooting the aggressor as the aggressor, armed or not, reaching a weapon or making a move similar to reaching a weapon, is completely justified.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 06-29-2016 at 10:40 AM..
Clever, but I think you miss the point. People with evil intent just tend to favor the use of guns to perpetrate their evil. Sorry, but that's just the fact. Please don't shoot the messenger...
Whether or not this means that guns tend to inspire acts of violence, hard to say.
Or do guns simply make it easier? I think perhaps so.
Maybe best to start with the question, why do guns rank so highly when it comes to weapons used to commit acts of violence?
That's about all I've got time for again today...
I am sorry but you are just being completely dishonest! If you don't intent to have a candid and honest discussion, let's just agree to disagree.
How is that hard to say? In US, we have more guns than people. Had gun ownership inspired acts of violence with any kind of correlation/causation, we would have seen violent crime rate in USA being off the chart, topping at least top 5 in the world but it is not at all. Even we use the completely screwed up, dishonest and unethical statistics of so called "firearm related death," US is still not even near the top.
In fact, if we remove inner city gang violence and suicide from so called "gun death," the violence in US is no worse than any western developed countries with strict gun controls. It has been proven over and over again but you refuse to accept that.
Guns are the weapon of choice for violent criminals because our gun control laws only target law abiding citizens. If you truly want to reduce gun violence, lets focus our gun control laws on the criminals.
Let me introduce you to the Project Exile, which NRA supports but the Democrats violently object because it's targeting their voter base. It proves yet again that Democrats don't care about saving lives.
Last edited by lifeexplorer; 06-29-2016 at 10:39 AM..
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