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The homicide rate didn't change. You have been misinformed. Check your own link.
Remember, the sun doesn't rise because the rooster crows.
And the gun ban didn't make Australia any safer, it just changed how people get murdered. For a $550,000,000 price tag. But hooray I guess?
This quote that I provided before, from my "own" link indicates the homicide rate DID change (and is today a quarter of that in America).
"There were 282 victims of homicide in 2007: a 12 percent decrease from 2006 and the lowest number recorded in the past 12 years."
I have no idea why you keep making the statements you do, but maybe if you were more specific in terms of addressing these numbers, you would make better sense. Here too, BTW, is another chart that you might appreciate, since we all know how much you like that one chart...
What causes you to say the rate did not change in some of your comments and then point at the downward trend (change) in others? Which is it? With all due respect, I'm not interested in a p*ssing match. I'm not trying to do other than just get these facts straight. They are not really relevant here in the states, but misrepresentation of the facts is a pet peeve of mine regardless. Your comment that the rate is the same, just the manner of homicides different, is simply not right. Furthermore, to the issue of the "downward trend" even before the gun ban, note the occasional upward trends as well. There are fluctuations not always so easy to explain, but also note the significantly lower levels after the ban, not only in terms of "mass murder" numbers but homicides as well. There was no guarantee the present downward trend at the time of the ban would continue, but I think Ausies wanted to do what they thought best to insure the downward trend continued, and so it did...
You diverged completely from the thread there. But we already have a topic for "cars are as dangerous as guns, so let's ban them too!" (The list of anecdotes you posted won't add anything to that thread, however, so it's just as well, I guess.)
Actually, my point was to prove that we don't have a "gun problem". We have a problem with people who don't value life, who have a violent mentality. Take guns away? People who want to commit murder will find other ways to do it.
Black people commit more of the crimes than white and are a much smaller percentage of the population, so there should be more blacks in prison.
Oh, blacks are only 13.8% of the population, not 30%.
You're not tracking. Those statistics were "people of color" including Hispanics as well for example. You also miss the point when explaining why the rate of black people incarcerated is higher. I mean duh...
The issue is why and/or what to do about the extremely high rate of incarceration in America. Is the problem black people, as in their DNA (race), or something else? Get the answer right or we go backwards rather than forwards...
One thing. Whites are more likely to own guns than Blacks, but the murder rate is much lower. Blacks have a smaller share of the population, and are less likely to own guns than Whites. However, Black men contribute to about 50% of this nation's murders, and it's mostly Black men being murder victims.
Something else. Most Blacks are in prison for non-lethal crimes. Black men are also getting locked up for child support discrepancies. There are alot of things you can go to prison for besides murder and rape.
And to clarify, Black men are 6% of the U.S. population. 1/3 of the Black male population is in prison, on probation, or in some for of legal discrepancy. If we are to really break it down, you have about 1/5 of the Black male population contributing to 50% of the U.S. prison population. So, in fact, for the Black population, there is a a higher percentage of Blacks(both male and female) behind bars than legally owning guns. And the murders are being committed by those persons who are basically in and out of prison, perpetual criminals.
If Blacks are less likely to own guns, but more murders are committed by Blacks, then how are guns the problem?
Again all true, good for you, but who needs this explanation? Not me...
Not sure who said guns were the problem here either. I think my question in my prior comment is the important one.
I can read and comprehend.
Words have meaning, while sentences have direction.
The Constitutions Bill of Rights, could not be more clear.
It is not what anyone thinks it should say by legislation, altering it without amendment. It is exactly what the text says and has always said.....
The constitution controls the debate. It is the law of the land.
The RIGHT of the PEOPLE. Not the control of the government.
It is called LIBERTY.
I won't pass up this ONE chance to agree with you! A first I think, though extremists at both ends do tend to make progress difficult. Still, liberty is difficult to maintain, very difficult...
democratic belief is one that believes in order to stop crime, they've actually got people believing that the only way to do that is to impose laws on guns...when in fact it's all about moral and ethical education....
but they dont' want their people (dems) to believe that....
and even some republicans are leaning towards that belief anymore...why?
Because they don't want to fix the problem....they want to take away the guns...
True? Not entirely, though I do think there are an awful lot of Americans that would rather live in a gun free society. Whether that means people "don't want to fix the problem," I really don't think so, and I also don't think that sort of rhetoric is productive all considered. The sort of thing that causes people not part of the gun culture to think less of pro gun folks. That your goal?
Actually, my point was to prove that we don't have a "gun problem". We have a problem with people who don't value life, who have a violent mentality. Take guns away? People who want to commit murder will find other ways to do it.
Trying to make that point by anecdotal evidence isn't really impressive.
Again all true, good for you, but who needs this explanation? Not me...
Not sure who said guns were the problem here either. I think my question in my prior comment is the important one.
This was to prove that you that the problem is not about guns. It is about mentality. A better question would be "how do we solve the violence mentality in our society"?
For the most part among the poor there is no honor among blacks to police their own, there is no respect .
Respect is not something one can demand, it must be earned out of an honest lifestyle. respect is not fear/terror.
Selfishness and horsing around with bad influences is a choice ,these are what divide a family and children have no respect for those that lie to them. but then they learn to lie as a result and the cycle continues.
Blaming does not fix a problem owning it and doing something one's self to alter their life style, DOES
Democrats love to blame things rather than take personal responsibility for their actions, and the courts support this, and there is some of the problem.
Plea bargaining should be out lawed ,both in the home and in the courts .
Negotiating away consequences implies there is no right or wrong , they are just empty ,selectively enforced rules.
Dishonesty in consequences is another problem in parenting as well,, starting with little ones , not actually laying down the law when they are defiant . In stead, they get empty threats ,so eventually they don't fear consequences at all, and it only escalates .
If you misbehaved as a kid, it is not license to ignore that behavior in one's own kids .
If kids that have no hard fast rules they get into trouble much easier.
It does not make me a hypocrite because of some failure in my past, and do not wish to see it, and the damage it had done, in my children. ( I disapprove of my bad behavior in the past)
Teaching children to learn from mistakes of others, rather then repeat or ignore them, will go a long way in making them better people.
But if consequences are being removed ,it cultures the lawless behavior.
Teaching kids...
If only there were a way to manage this better through public policy that could actually work with kids from troubled families, troubled areas, but being brought into this world by a crack-head mom and no dad is not the kid's fault. Nor that of Democrats, though I suppose more liberal thinkers do think twice about what penalties or incarceration is appropriate for the 15 year old struggling to make due with that crack-head mom, just busted with drugs and gun possession. Years in prison going to now help this kid toward a better future of employment and "the pursuit of happiness?" What these kids learn from such a crappy start in life, anyone's guess, but probably not what a typical white kid in a good neighborhood in a good family is going to learn. Right? So the answer is more jail time? Not sure about that...
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