Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What? Who cares? The fact that it hurts a bunch of white people doesn't change the fact that it will hurt a lot of AAs.
The fact that it would hurt A LOT more Whites than Blacks is why White Americans haven't rushed to end preferential treatment for athletes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity
Discrimination based on race is racism. Affirmative action is discrimination based on race. QED.
Unfair is bad. Racist is bad. Unfair + racist is worse than unfair.
Keep it simple. You can craft nebulous arguments about "experience" to support any decision. It's ill defined nonsense used to justify an answer to speaker has already come to, and subjective (ideal experience will vary student by student).
#beggingthequestion. Using your logic, political parties doing minority outreach is racism? Just b/c race is a factor, doesn't make it racist. That's just lazy thinking.
The experience factor is not nonsense. Ask anyone who works as an administrator for any school, and they'll tell you that the student experience is one of their highest priorities. Very few people want to go to a school w/ no personality, and even fewer would donate back to a school like that, which in the end, is the ultimate objective for these schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Seems like a fair compromise.
In fact, I'll be some arguing against affirmative action here are all in favor of affirmative action for star football or basketball players.
Of course they are. They don't even see it as hypocritical.
The fact that it would hurt A LOT more Whites than Blacks is why White Americans haven't rushed to end preferential treatment for athletes.
It's also not, you know, explicit racism. Which would anger you more and drive you to action faster: a bank saying they won't extend loans to black people or a bank saying they won't extend loans to ugly people, arguing that whichever is a bad credit risk. Be honest now.
Quote:
#beggingthequestion. Using your logic, political parties doing minority outreach is racism? Just b/c race is a factor, doesn't make it racist. That's just lazy thinking.
If you think discrimination based on race isn't racism you are either intellectually dishonest or have a fundamentally different understanding of the English language than I do. Unrelated, the nonfunctional hashtag trend is hideous.
Political parties doing minority outreach is not racist in theory but not infrequently is combined with racism in practice. If they are reaching out to communities because they are in their voting areas and supporting them as constituents and using that verbal framing because it's what their voters want to hear, the language used is gross but no actual racism is occurring. If they do special favors for people because of their race that they wouldn't do for other constituents with a different skin color, that is racism.
Quote:
The experience factor is not nonsense. Ask anyone who works as an administrator for any school, and they'll tell you that the student experience is one of their highest priorities. Very few people want to go to a school w/ no personality, and even fewer would donate back to a school like that, which in the end, is the ultimate objective for these schools.
My friends who went to MIT and Caltech for the most part didn't have ideal day to day experiences at school. None of them wish they had gone somewhere else instead. They graduated with a better education and a better professional network than anyone else. There's a reason top students fight like dogs to get into schools with the most and best other top students, not to get into the school that has students with the most "personality" as vaguely defined by the admissions office.
Heck I got into several of the top 10 News & World Report universities and LACs of the time (probably still, these things are relatively stable). Went to one. I couldn't have cared less about the ethnic mix of the other students or how winning the sports team was. Cared a heck of a lot about the intelligence and intellectual curiosity of the other students. If administrators were honestly trying to craft an "experience" their merit admits would value they would be intentionally packing in more merit admits, rich students whose parents could help their friends get jobs on graduation, and pretty students for the obvious -- not students picked out for race or athletic prowess.
The vote result is 1 in favor of keeping affirmative action against 30 in favor of ending affirmative action. This is unreal. If this small sample is remotely accurate to what the American people thinks, then the court's ruling is not representing the people at all.
I agree.
This 'enriching the experience for my benefit' by creating fake-ass diversity is nothing from which I've gained any benefit.
On the opposite side of it, however, dumbing down of coursework because graduation rates must be maintained is a real phenomenon.
You can say, "Hey, we'll mix up the students however we like, because we don't want a giant class of clones." But the fact is that high-achievers are rarely clones (despite the stupid stereotypes), they don't necessarily come from similar backgrounds and/or experiences, and there hasn't really been any evidence that mixing a bunch of races together enhances the university experience in any way.
I don't care if you're black, blue, orange, white, or polka dot. You come to school bc you earned a spot there.
No it isn't a accurate because this forum is dominate by Republicans and has very few pro-black or pro-minority people. I voted against affirmative action but I also see the benefits in not having a bunch of nerds who don't have people skills and can't work with others because of no diversity, not just ethnically or race wise but on a personality and income basis. I agree with Affirmative Action for most things but race. Income diversity, personality diversity etcetera is important or you will have a bunch of book smart kids who are xenophobic, classist and can't function in the real world, because they go to an international office and can't carry on a conversation about anything not work related. This is why clubs, especially sports are important.
No it isn't a accurate because this forum is dominate by Republicans and has very few pro-black or pro-minority people. I voted against affirmative action but I also see the benefits in not having a bunch of nerds who don't have people skills and can't work with others because of no diversity, not just ethnically or race wise but on a personality basis.
I know a disproportionately HUGE amount of nerds.
They don't have personality problems or difficulty engaging others more or less so than any other demographic.
Affirmative action WAS needed at one time. Sorely.
It isn't anymore. It's pointless. And kind of insulting, actually.
No it isn't a accurate because this forum is dominate by Republicans and has very few pro-black or pro-minority people. I voted against affirmative action but I also see the benefits in not having a bunch of nerds who don't have people skills and can't work with others because of no diversity, not just ethnically or race wise but on a personality basis.
Fair enough. Then use other factors than ethnicity to ensure not a bunch of nerds making up 100% of the class. How about using factors such as great debate skills, great acting/theater skills, great leadership skills, etc.?
The vote result is 1 in favor of keeping affirmative action against 30 in favor of ending affirmative action. This is unreal. If this small sample is remotely accurate to what the American people thinks, then the court's ruling is not representing the people at all.
A court ruling isn't supposed to represent what the people think. It's supposed to represent the law.
A court ruling isn't supposed to represent what the people think. It's supposed to represent the law.
The law is created to represent the people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
