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Old 06-30-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,924,870 times
Reputation: 10028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
How hard do you think it would be for a man with a knife to take over a school bus from the old woman driving it?

How hard is it to rent a commercial cutter and remove a five foot section of railway track?

How hard is it to drive a car 50 mph down a busy downtown sidewalk?

How hard is it to carry a five gallon gas can to a nursing home?

How many pool stores sell buckets of chlorine and acid?

It's really not that hard to kill a bunch of people without a gun.
When any of those things actually happens let us know. In the meantime guns are the problem. Lets deal with that. When 30,000 people are being killed in a single year in deliberate train derailments we will deal with that too. I mean... a 3' bolt cutter can be used to cut bicycle locks...you can buy them at Ace Hardware... so guess what, someone that looks like me had better not be seen anywhere close to a 4' bolt cutter by someone with a gun! Just yesterday I was pounced on by the Security Guard while unlocking my own bike outside a building. Instead of apologizing when confronted with the evidence of her error, the guard said I would have felt differently if it had been my bike someone else was trying to steal and she intervened. The shooters of recent note time and time again came to the notice of Law Enforcement but because they were not black they were left alone to carry on. Left to kill people. The Boston Bombers (and shooters), The San Bernadino Shooters, The Orlando Shooter... these incidents should never have happened. I am not sure why because nuts can use a variety of things to commit mass murder that we can't secure them all. I disagree that it is not that hard to rent a commercial cutter. I suspect that it is actually quite difficult as evidenced by the fact that we don't have many accounts of people using them destructively! FAIL!
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:58 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,595,663 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
When any of those things actually happens let us know. In the meantime guns are the problem. Lets deal with that. When 30,000 people are being killed in a single year in deliberate train derailments we will deal with that too. I mean... a 3' bolt cutter can be used to cut bicycle locks...you can buy them at Ace Hardware... so guess what, someone that looks like me had better not be seen anywhere close to a 4' bolt cutter by someone with a gun! Just yesterday I was pounced on by the Security Guard while unlocking my own bike outside a building. Instead of apologizing when confronted with the evidence of her error, the guard said I would have felt differently if it had been my bike someone else was trying to steal and she intervened. The shooters of recent note time and time again came to the notice of Law Enforcement but because they were not black they were left alone to carry on. Left to kill people. The Boston Bombers (and shooters), The San Bernadino Shooters, The Orlando Shooter... these incidents should never have happened. I am not sure why because nuts can use a variety of things to commit mass murder that we can't secure them all. I disagree that it is not that hard to rent a commercial cutter. I suspect that it is actually quite difficult as evidenced by the fact that we don't have many accounts of people using them destructively! FAIL!
Why does Mexico have a higher murder rate when they have much more strict gun laws? Why aren't the criminals in Mexico giving up on killing people?
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,924,870 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Why does Mexico have a higher murder rate when they have much more strict gun laws? Why aren't the criminals in Mexico giving up on killing people?
They are at war! In Mexico or anywhere else (except America!) people who love each other don't kill them! In Mexico when someone kills you it is because you are in Law Enforcement or Politics. Nancy Lanza was a stay at home mom who had an arsenal and marksmanship credentials. Her son was aimless and confused. Seriously you are going to try and compare Mexico, or Honduras, or Jamaica with America? Really? The crushing poverty of the Third World can only be imagined. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone with the wealth and comfort of a middle or upper middle class lifestyle to wind up dead as a result of some domestic situation or nutjob gone off the rails. When and if people in other countries are killed violently it is because of WAR. It could be a drug war or political instability but it is conflict.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:18 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,595,663 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
They are at war! In Mexico or anywhere else (except America!) people who love each other don't kill them! In Mexico when someone kills you it is because you are in Law Enforcement or Politics. Nancy Lanza was a stay at home mom who had an arsenal and marksmanship credentials. Her son was aimless and confused. Seriously you are going to try and compare Mexico, or Honduras, or Jamaica with America? Really? The crushing poverty of the Third World can only be imagined. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone with the wealth and comfort of a middle or upper middle class lifestyle to wind up dead as a result of some domestic situation or nutjob gone off the rails. When and if people in other countries are killed violently it is because of WAR. It could be a drug war or political instability but it is conflict.
The outlaws are still using guns and killing at a higher rate than in the US even with strict gun laws.

Try to make all of the lame excuses you want, but criminals will continue to ignore gun laws.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,507,958 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
How hard do you think it would be for a man with a knife to take over a school bus from the old woman driving it?

How hard is it to rent a commercial cutter and remove a five foot section of railway track?

How hard is it to drive a car 50 mph down a busy downtown sidewalk?

How hard is it to carry a five gallon gas can to a nursing home?

How many pool stores sell buckets of chlorine and acid?

It's really not that hard to kill a bunch of people without a gun.
But we don't see it happening, do we?
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:28 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,083,438 times
Reputation: 1863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
It's a good thing I have a thick skin. You are correct, of course, the gun is just a tool. A tool manufactured to kill people. The hate is in yourheart that you feel that you need to kill people who only intended to ruin your day. The vast majority of people killed by guns did not have one themselves!!!! Gun owners do not have much interest in shooting at people that can shoot back!!! Guns are the problem. Hate is intrinsic to the human spirit. There is no getting away from hate. But we were not born with guns in our bodies. Guns can go away, or be restricted. Hate cannot. So... I'll continue to disagree with you.
The FBI reports that 71% of those arrested for gun violence are repeat offenders. That means they have been excluded from legally owning any firearms.
Therefore they are not GUN OWNERS. They are criminals in possession of a gun.
Stop confusing legal gun owners for criminals.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:33 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,595,663 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
But we don't see it happening, do we?
He was saying guns were being used because they aren't difficult; therefore, I was pointing out that there are many other easy ways of mass killings. Keep up.
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Old 06-30-2016, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,507,958 times
Reputation: 21679
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
He was saying guns were being used because they aren't difficult; therefore, I was pointing out that there are many other easy ways of mass killings. Keep up.
You're argument is hypothetical, mine is reality based.
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,924,870 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
He was saying guns were being used because they aren't difficult; therefore, I was pointing out that there are many other easy ways of mass killings. Keep up.
If that was your aim you failed. Renting/stealing a commercial cutter? Easy?
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Old 06-30-2016, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,855 posts, read 11,924,870 times
Reputation: 10028
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
You're argument is hypothetical, mine is reality based.
They even have the temerity to get snarky while spouting absolute rubbish at you as well. When and if we succeed in bringing sanity to the land with respect to firearms, I don't think it will be enough just to say "Thank God, finally". I think we must make the holdouts pay for having kept us from the goal for so long. Pay with their freedom.
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