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While you never suggested the guns were laying around because of lgeal gun owners, you did not make any distinction to the contrary. Further, we don't have 3 guns per person. Whoever told you that needs to be taken off of your trusted source of stats list. We are, however, at about 1 per person. This amount of firearms in civilian hands is also the reason we have never been invaded by a formal military since our founding. THink back to the Japanese and the comment about a gun behind every tree.
I'll not argue about what you consider an epidemic of gun violence. The fact that they are predominately used legally should be cause to question this registration bill.
As far as forcing registration, it is exactly that. If you don't register a firearm, you are a criminal and can be charged in a criminal court of law. Hawaii is using the threat of fine or imprisonment for not registering the exercise of a Constitutionally guaranteed right. I've seen no such indication that owning or driving a car is protected. In fact, I am not forced to register a car. Neither are you. You can buy a car and not use it for road use. There are, presumably, millions of cars not registered in the US that are used for what is considered "off-highway" use. Race cars, farm vehicles and others come to mind. There is no requirement for a vehicle to be registered to be a part of a private collection, or on the lot of a car dealer. I think your comparison is faulty at best.
Perhaps the laid back culture, high real estate prices and, the laws all have worked in harmony to prevent gun violence as seen in other areas. If this is the case, this new law will not do a single thing to make Hawaii more "Aloha" or safer. It'll just make the anti-gun lobby happy that they have "done something."
our population is 318 million, even at one gun per person it is a lot of guns. I disagree with the reason we haven't been invaded by a formal government is not because of individuals with guns but our military might.
laws in some cases are put to their best when it comes to prosecution of a criminal. I was on a jury for attempted murder, one of the charges was no permit to carry, conceal. he indeed did not have a permit and he had years added on to his sentence for what was a horribly violent crime. as it is he got off easy. I have no problem keeping people in prison who are guilty.
no a car isn't a constitutional right but it can kill, just as a gun, both are the responsibility of the owner, and they should be held accountable for any action done when using them.
our high real estate prices do not keep criminals out of Hawaii, they don't move here in the first place.
this is a thread on Hawaii and it's restrictions. but if it is a true debate about guns, add in the communities all across the country including rural that suffer gun violence. we have far too many gun owners who have never had any education on gun safety. hundreds of accidental deaths from gun ownership every single year. we have loop holes at gun shows and on line sales. thousands of NRA supporters and ex conservative presidents support gun regulations. at one time or another the manufactured gun was bought by someone legally I would suspect unless it was stolen. consider the term a well "regulated" militia.
Gun violence does happen all across America, however as I stated, by far, the bulk of the FBI reported homicides come from ghetto communities. Thats why I asked how do we import the Aloha attitude in these communities. If we made a dent in where the homicides occur the most, our stats would drop even further than they have over the past 20 years to a point where our gun violence would be statistically unremarkable.
As far as all guns being bought legally.... straw purchases are illegal and are the most common way guns make their way into the criminal channel. So no, not all guns started out legal.
Gun violence does happen all across America, however as I stated, by far, the bulk of the FBI reported homicides come from ghetto communities. Thats why I asked how do we import the Aloha attitude in these communities. If we made a dent in where the homicides occur the most, our stats would drop even further than they have over the past 20 years to a point where our gun violence would be statistically unremarkable.
As far as all guns being bought legally.... straw purchases are illegal and are the most common way guns make their way into the criminal channel. So no, not all guns started out legal.
aloha culture in a nut shell is caring and supporting ohana, which on an island is pretty much everyone. on the mainland you could substitute island for community, neighborhood, state, county. the social ills in our poor communities will never be solved when we have people who don't want to help, who don't want their tax dollars going to the "ghetto". for this reason I think this is where our mega churches and all churches step up and help out. we have far too many people, children and elderly who are hungry, homeless, unhealthy and a whole host of issues. we have young people with nothing to do but get into trouble, no job opportunity, trade school or education. churches can help so much more than they do. they should be required to use a decent portion of their profits to help the community or lose their tax exception.
our population is 318 million, even at one gun per person it is a lot of guns. I disagree with the reason we haven't been invaded by a formal government is not because of individuals with guns but our military might.
laws in some cases are put to their best when it comes to prosecution of a criminal. I was on a jury for attempted murder, one of the charges was no permit to carry, conceal. he indeed did not have a permit and he had years added on to his sentence for what was a horribly violent crime. as it is he got off easy. I have no problem keeping people in prison who are guilty.
no a car isn't a constitutional right but it can kill, just as a gun, both are the responsibility of the owner, and they should be held accountable for any action done when using them.
our high real estate prices do not keep criminals out of Hawaii, they don't move here in the first place.
Our military might is one thing, but the fact that we are well-armed is not up for debate.
The quote I referred to is debated, and in some circles considered misattributed. However, there is no proof this statement was not made. The quote was supposedly made by Isoroku Yamamoto. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
Whether the statement was made or not, you can't deny the sentiment is accurate.
It's great that you believe laws are put to their best when prosecuting a criminal. The fact that this attempted murderer didn't have a concealed handgun permit is practically irrelevant compared to the crime of attempted murdered. You made no indication about whether this person was allowed to even possess a firearm to begin with. Should this person have been ineligible to possess a firearm and the current laws enforced, you might not have had to sit on that jury. You could have been on a jury hearing a case about a bad pet rooming review. Thank you for doing your civic duty nonetheless.
Trying to bring this around to cars killing is just a weak attempt. I expected so much more from you. Cars, like guns, are inanimate objects incapable of causing any damage or injury on their own. They require input from people. You can kill with just about any consumer product on the market if the intent is there. While a gun and a car are the responsibility of their respective owners, a car is NOT a Constitutionally protected Right. This is apples to staplers.
Finally, I have to ask if you actually read that last line.
our high real estate prices do not keep criminals out of Hawaii, they don't move here in the first place.
No kidding. They can't afford to move there. High real estate prices notwithstanding, the price of getting one's belongings to HI is stupidly expensive. Hell, just getting yourself there is expensive. You've got built-in crime prevention AND built-in poverty reduction. This is a luxury that no other state enjoys, unless you count Alaska and maybe Puerto Rico.
Your Aloha culture doesn't keep someone from moving there. The costs of moving there keep people from moving there, so it's little wonder low-income criminals don't move there.
You keep believing in the power of Aloha and I'll keep fighting for enforcement of our existing laws instead of creating new ones. Maybe one day you will understand that this registration bill won't do a single thing to prevent someone from committing a crime.
aloha culture in a nut shell is caring and supporting ohana, which on an island is pretty much everyone. on the mainland you could substitute island for community, neighborhood, state, county. the social ills in our poor communities will never be solved when we have people who don't want to help, who don't want their tax dollars going to the "ghetto". for this reason I think this is where our mega churches and all churches step up and help out. we have far too many people, children and elderly who are hungry, homeless, unhealthy and a whole host of issues. we have young people with nothing to do but get into trouble, no job opportunity, trade school or education. churches can help so much more than they do. they should be required to use a decent portion of their profits to help the community or lose their tax exception.
Here we go with the "ghetto" stuff.
I don't mind one bit helping the unfortunate among us. As a matter of fact, I spend a great deal of my free time involving myself and my family in philanthropic works.
What I DO have a problem with is the creation of generational willingness to demand a handout. I strongly applaud those who have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and improved their station in life. Similarly, I stronly applaud those who show an effort to do the same. I'd say, without any reservation, that most of us feel the same towards those who do their best.
Most of us understand we have all made mistakes in our lives. Some of those mistakes involved poor decisions to procreate at a very young age. (You mention church, so I mention that pre-marital sex is still frowned-upon) It's how we learn from our mistakes and recover that builds us up as individuals, community members, etc., AND shows character. Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes. I've done everything I can to make up for those.
For someone to simply refuse to do more than the minimum to receive a monthly stipend is where the pushback comes from. I've had the less-than-common experience of working with many people who are what we all call poor. Some by choice and mistake, others by chance and bad luck. I'm a property manager who has dealt extensively with the section 8 program.
I've seen many who have decided to put their best effort forward and get out of what they may call their own personal hell. I've seen more who are content with only being responsible for a very small portion of their rent, some were not even required to pay any portion. I've overheard conversations detailing how having another kid is worth an additional $1000 per month in "income." This is the kind of stuff that really pisses us off.
Going back to churches, you do realize they are considered non-profits? There are expenses to keep up with, but most every church I've attended does mission trips, sends care packages, participates in community days, some even build houses. How much more do you want before they lose their tax exempt status? This ibviously doesn't apply to ALL churches, but most of them don't run arounf bragging about what they do.
You want to free up a bunch of money to help our homeless? Fight to stop the billions in foreign aide, just for a couple years. You could build a house for $25,000. For every $1B we send overseas, we could possibly build 40,000 houses. Forty thousand! Let that sink in for a minute.
How many homeless do we have in the US? You want them to have homes, there ya go. The very first link that shows up on Google when I search for "US foreign aide 2015" shows $35,000,000,000. Thirty five billion dollars. Looks like $35B could build 1,400,000 houses @ $25,000 each. That's just one year of foreign aide. Perhaps our government doesn't really want to solve any homelessness problems. Perhaps Uncle Sam would rather appear to be Daddy Warbucks instead of actually addressing domestic problems. It seems like Sally Struthers and friends are begging for donations to Africa at about 10:1 compared to those begging for money for domestic issues. Perhaps a certain class would rather imagine the problems are not here and only exist elsewhere in the world. For goodness sake, we donated almost $10.8 billion dollars to animal charities in 2015 alone. It's for the kitties, screw the homeless. How many homes could that provide?
Our military might is one thing, but the fact that we are well-armed is not up for debate.
The quote I referred to is debated, and in some circles considered misattributed. However, there is no proof this statement was not made. The quote was supposedly made by Isoroku Yamamoto. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
Whether the statement was made or not, you can't deny the sentiment is accurate.
It's great that you believe laws are put to their best when prosecuting a criminal. The fact that this attempted murderer didn't have a concealed handgun permit is practically irrelevant compared to the crime of attempted murdered. You made no indication about whether this person was allowed to even possess a firearm to begin with. Should this person have been ineligible to possess a firearm and the current laws enforced, you might not have had to sit on that jury. You could have been on a jury hearing a case about a bad pet rooming review. Thank you for doing your civic duty nonetheless.
Trying to bring this around to cars killing is just a weak attempt. I expected so much more from you. Cars, like guns, are inanimate objects incapable of causing any damage or injury on their own. They require input from people. You can kill with just about any consumer product on the market if the intent is there. While a gun and a car are the responsibility of their respective owners, a car is NOT a Constitutionally protected Right. This is apples to staplers.
Finally, I have to ask if you actually read that last line.
our high real estate prices do not keep criminals out of Hawaii, they don't move here in the first place.
No kidding. They can't afford to move there. High real estate prices notwithstanding, the price of getting one's belongings to HI is stupidly expensive. Hell, just getting yourself there is expensive. You've got built-in crime prevention AND built-in poverty reduction. This is a luxury that no other state enjoys, unless you count Alaska and maybe Puerto Rico.
Your Aloha culture doesn't keep someone from moving there. The costs of moving there keep people from moving there, so it's little wonder low-income criminals don't move there.
You keep believing in the power of Aloha and I'll keep fighting for enforcement of our existing laws instead of creating new ones. Maybe one day you will understand that this registration bill won't do a single thing to prevent someone from committing a crime.
anyone can get here on a one way ticket fairly cheap. criminals don't move here because we don't have a criminal culture. they have no infrastructure. they have no family, no people they know to associate with. yes for Hawaii that is a bonus. we are lucky we don't have drive by shootings, convince store hold ups.
no need to remind me a car is not a constitutional right I posted that above. on this we agree.
I don't mind one bit helping the unfortunate among us. As a matter of fact, I spend a great deal of my free time involving myself and my family in philanthropic works.
What I DO have a problem with is the creation of generational willingness to demand a handout. I strongly applaud those who have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and improved their station in life. Similarly, I stronly applaud those who show an effort to do the same. I'd say, without any reservation, that most of us feel the same towards those who do their best.
Most of us understand we have all made mistakes in our lives. Some of those mistakes involved poor decisions to procreate at a very young age. (You mention church, so I mention that pre-marital sex is still frowned-upon) It's how we learn from our mistakes and recover that builds us up as individuals, community members, etc., AND shows character. Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes. I've done everything I can to make up for those.
For someone to simply refuse to do more than the minimum to receive a monthly stipend is where the pushback comes from. I've had the less-than-common experience of working with many people who are what we all call poor. Some by choice and mistake, others by chance and bad luck. I'm a property manager who has dealt extensively with the section 8 program.
I've seen many who have decided to put their best effort forward and get out of what they may call their own personal hell. I've seen more who are content with only being responsible for a very small portion of their rent, some were not even required to pay any portion. I've overheard conversations detailing how having another kid is worth an additional $1000 per month in "income." This is the kind of stuff that really pisses us off.
Going back to churches, you do realize they are considered non-profits? There are expenses to keep up with, but most every church I've attended does mission trips, sends care packages, participates in community days, some even build houses. How much more do you want before they lose their tax exempt status? This ibviously doesn't apply to ALL churches, but most of them don't run arounf bragging about what they do.
You want to free up a bunch of money to help our homeless? Fight to stop the billions in foreign aide, just for a couple years. You could build a house for $25,000. For every $1B we send overseas, we could possibly build 40,000 houses. Forty thousand! Let that sink in for a minute.
How many homeless do we have in the US? You want them to have homes, there ya go. The very first link that shows up on Google when I search for "US foreign aide 2015" shows $35,000,000,000. Thirty five billion dollars. Looks like $35B could build 1,400,000 houses @ $25,000 each. That's just one year of foreign aide. Perhaps our government doesn't really want to solve any homelessness problems. Perhaps Uncle Sam would rather appear to be Daddy Warbucks instead of actually addressing domestic problems. It seems like Sally Struthers and friends are begging for donations to Africa at about 10:1 compared to those begging for money for domestic issues. Perhaps a certain class would rather imagine the problems are not here and only exist elsewhere in the world. For goodness sake, we donated almost $10.8 billion dollars to animal charities in 2015 alone. It's for the kitties, screw the homeless. How many homes could that provide?
But churches are the problem.
my use of "ghetto" was in quotes as it was referred to by another poster who used the phrase. I did not.
I have no problems with church but I don't think they should be able to build mega churches costing millions of dollars when even 1/2 that money could be better spent.
Hawaii passed a law making it the first state to put gun owners on a federal criminal record database and monitor them.
Hawaii Governor David Ige signed the bill Thursday, which allows police to enroll firearms applicants and individuals who are registering their firearms into “Rap Back,” a Federal Bureau of Investigation database that monitors criminal activities by people under investigation or in positions of trust, Reuters reported.
The law takes effect immediately. “Rap Back” allows Hawaii police to be notified when a Hawaii firearm owner is arrested anywhere in the U.S. In addition, the law allows Hawaii police to evaluate whether a firearm owner should continue owning a gun after being arrested.
This move comes after a sit-in by Democrats to support gun control measures that would keep people on the no-fly list from buying a gun.
Previously, Ige had signed a law that disqualifies people convicted of stalking and sexual assault from owning a gun and a law that requires firearm owners diagnosed with a mental, behavioral or emotional disorder to surrender their firearms.
Backwards is as Backwards does, and Hawaii does Backwards like few others - spend many a year their marveling at how backwards and regress-oriented they are.
You can have the lists, but you can't deny someone a constitutional right based on being on the list.
To some of these rubes, the RKBA, which the Founders thought was vital, is NOT a right, much less a Constitutional Right. Those extend only to such things as murdering pre-born infants etc., Thing specifically mentioned as sacred rights in the Constitution, aren't rights at all, and things never mentioned in the Consititution (including BOR in both cases) ARE Constitutional rights. You can't get much deeper into the weeds than that.
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