U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:31 AM
 
14,224 posts, read 5,966,450 times
Reputation: 6051

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Then lay out a plan not state the obvious.

More money in individuals hands, and less in governments, empowers people, not 'elites'

What is an 'elite'? A millionaire? Billionaire? Need some specifics, not complaints.
How can a sharp increase in inequality empower the people when it is proven that it weakens the voice of the people in the political process? An elite is someone who can easily buy favors in the political system through his/her wealth.

A specific would be to push hard for public funding of elections so anyone can run for office without having to beg the rich and the powerful for money. How is that done? Through organizing and involving millions of people in the political process.

This is a concrete step: The Plan - Wolf PAC
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:33 AM
 
14,224 posts, read 5,966,450 times
Reputation: 6051
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Since February 3rd, 1913, there is no evidence. That was both the advent of the IRS and when the Federal Reserve came into being.
So you are saying that there is no historical evidence of a sharp increase in inequality combined with a sharp decrease in power for the ultra rich.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:34 AM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,231,355 times
Reputation: 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
What are the historic consequences of eliminating social safety nets? Increased crime, fear, political instability and possible revolutions? What's so great about that? We can bemoan "poor life choices" all we want, but have you thought about the consequences of eliminating any realistic hope of decent survival for millions of people, who you would have to share country with?
So do nothing and allow the welfare class to continue growing being fed by an ever shrinking middle class while we skip flat tax changes to the tax code to try and make the rich pay more, which will just lead to their financial exodus.

Or, start cutting things down significantly. Food Stamps now get put on the WIC restrictions. Welfare means hours and hours of community service. Vouchers for the taxpayers to get something out of the welfare class (spring/fall cleanups or similar). Remove the unending waste and fraud in the system. Remove people who are found with drug or alcohol issues while on public support. Sorry, your not getting a house because you popped out three kids with no job (big thing around here), and by the way it's 10 hours for you and 10 hours for each of your kids getting public assistance. Hope those life choices were worth it. On the bright side we will have cleaner streets.

Plus the idiocy coming out of the 'lets buy the middle class' legislation. Yeah, you make a combined income of 90K and you bought a 450k home with 8k in taxes... well that sucks for you. We're not making the same couple who bought a 200k home and lives within their means pay for your mistake.



And no, I don't have any real compassion for someone who dropped out of high school, got involved with drugs, popped out some kids without a job or had kids on some part time minimum wage gig. Your poor life choices shouldn't mean I need to pay blood money in taxes to keep you from rioting.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:35 AM
 
34,637 posts, read 19,069,345 times
Reputation: 22178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
How can a sharp increase in inequality empower the people when it is proven that it weakens the voice of the people in the political process? An elite is someone who can easily buy favors in the political system through his/her wealth.

A specific would be to push hard for public funding of elections so anyone can run for office without having to beg the rich and the powerful for money. How is that done? Through organizing and involving millions of people in the political process.

This is a concrete step: The Plan - Wolf PAC
The elite occupy government.

I am in favor of using only public funds for campaigns. No outside money at all. To become a candidate, you must get X signatures to be on the ballot. Each perso. On the ballot then receives the same amount of money which varies by office.

I'm all for such a plan.

The real problem comes when people who aren't candidates start advertising on issues that are linked to specific candidates. Due to the First, I don't see how you can stop that.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:37 AM
 
14,224 posts, read 5,966,450 times
Reputation: 6051
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
The rich pay much more than their fair share.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax - WSJ
I addressed that to the person who said that the rich will not benefit the most by eliminating it. I think it is clear that they will. Which will further entrench their power and push even more politicians into their arms, creating even more bad legislation hurting the middle class. And on and on it goes.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:38 AM
 
34,637 posts, read 19,069,345 times
Reputation: 22178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
So do nothing and allow the welfare class to continue growing being fed by an ever shrinking middle class while we skip flat tax changes to the tax code to try and make the rich pay more, which will just lead to their financial exodus.

Or, start cutting things down significantly. Food Stamps now get put on the WIC restrictions. Welfare means hours and hours of community service. Vouchers for the taxpayers to get something out of the welfare class (spring/fall cleanups or similar). Remove the unending waste and fraud in the system. Remove people who are found with drug or alcohol issues while on public support. Sorry, your not getting a house because you popped out three kids with no job (big thing around here), and by the way it's 10 hours for you and 10 hours for each of your kids getting public assistance. Hope those life choices were worth it. On the bright side we will have cleaner streets.

Plus the idiocy coming out of the 'lets buy the middle class' legislation. Yeah, you make a combined income of 90K and you bought a 450k home with 8k in taxes... well that sucks for you. We're not making the same couple who bought a 200k home and lives within their means pay for your mistake.



And no, I don't have any real compassion for someone who dropped out of high school, got involved with drugs, popped out some kids without a job or had kids on some part time minimum wage gig. Your poor life choices shouldn't mean I need to pay blood money in taxes to keep you from rioting.
Food stamps need to be exactly that - food stamps not a debit card.

You get stamps to exchange for milk, eggs, chicken, veggies, etc. if you want chips, soda and Little Debbie, you come up with the money.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:42 AM
 
34,637 posts, read 19,069,345 times
Reputation: 22178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I addressed that to the person who said that the rich will not benefit the most by eliminating it. I think it is clear that they will. Which will further entrench their power and push even more politicians into their arms, creating even more bad legislation hurting the middle class. And on and on it goes.
You asked:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
How much of the federal income tax is paid by the rich?
I answere:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
The rich pay much more than their fair share.

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax - WSJ
The rich pay the most federal income tax of any group while the lowest group pay no income tax while receiving refunds.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:44 AM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,402,585 times
Reputation: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
So you are saying that there is no historical evidence of a sharp increase in inequality combined with a sharp decrease in power for the ultra rich.
No I'm saying the passage of the 16th was one of many factors that helped drive the divide and influx of money into Washington via special interest.

Public funding of elections does nothing except create another bureaucracy. Think super delegates.

I'm not sure where you get some of the syntax about others ideas. However, 'taking' people's incomes, then having them try and finagle the system to get some back, that clearly isn't helping.

Individuals, no matter how wealthy, are already limited on contributions. It is the length of election cycles and super pacs that allow money and influence to corrupt.

A president serves 4 years. 2 of those years are spent campaigning. During that time, power is delegated to appointees while they campaign to raise money...

House members serve 2 years. At least 1 year is spent raising money. See absentee ballots.

Senators? They have it best yet are probably influenced the most.

And the surprise court? Lifetime appointments? No, they are influenced by money. Just their own omnipotence in regards to no end date but death.

Meanwhile, the 'average joe' as stated, plays the stupid left/right game.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:50 AM
 
14,224 posts, read 5,966,450 times
Reputation: 6051
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
The elite occupy government.

I am in favor of using only public funds for campaigns. No outside money at all. To become a candidate, you must get X signatures to be on the ballot. Each perso. On the ballot then receives the same amount of money which varies by office.

I'm all for such a plan.
That's great. Are you willing to donate your time and money to ensure that your voice can be heard? Join up and make yourself be heard. We cant change anything if we dont join forces about what we agree on.

Wolf PAC
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-01-2016, 08:57 AM
 
34,637 posts, read 19,069,345 times
Reputation: 22178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
That's great. Are you willing to donate your time and money to ensure that your voice can be heard? Join up and make yourself be heard. We cant change anything if we dont join forces about what we agree on.

Wolf PAC
I have both volunteered for campaigns and donated money to campaigns. I don't give a dime to either party, and every campaign I've volunteered for was in primaries getting rid of incumbent Republicans.

I live in Texas, and I have never once voted for Rick Perry.

I'm not voting for Trump, and I've ridiculed him and stated on here that people shouldn't vote for him in the general. In the general, if the two big picks are Trump and Clinton, do you believe liberals should not vote for Clinton?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 AM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top