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Old 02-18-2008, 06:49 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,326 posts, read 54,344,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marodi View Post
Because we can control Saudi Arabia enough for them to not threaten our oil shipments and let us have military bases, while Iranians wouldn't/won't allow that kind of capitulation.


Too bad we can't control them enough to make them help us fight terrorists, a West Point study group determined most al Qaeda fighters in Iraq come from Saudi Arabia, while Bush points fingers and rattles sabers at Iran
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Earth
1,478 posts, read 5,081,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinFromBoise View Post
Why do we kiss the ass of one terrorist sponsoring nation but not the other. They're both oppresive fundamentalists Islamic states. They both have oil. Why the double standard?
Becaue one terrorist sponsoring nation kisses our ass and the other doesn't.

The Saudi's love our money, the Iranians are in league with other countries, like the former Soviet states.
And then there's Israel... Iran wants them gone, Saudi Arabia does, too, but doesn't go around talking about it.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,750,914 times
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Follow the money
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Here
11,578 posts, read 13,941,704 times
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Is Saudi Arabia calling for the destruction of other countries?
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:31 AM
 
413 posts, read 909,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta View Post
WRONG!! Ideology has very little to do with anything here. It's all about power and wealth. The part of Saudi Arabia were most of the oil fields lie have a majority Shiite population. If Iran--which has a dominant Shiite population--becomes a regional power, this could threaten revolution is Saudi Arabia in which the Shiites could control the oil fields and therefore transferring wealth from the hands of the house of Saud into the hands of the Shiites. Which would shift the balance of power in the Middle East, therefore threatening Western business interests.

It's not about ideology, it's about money.
It's indeed about money. There is far more US money invested in Saudi Arabia, and the American partnerships with Saudi enterprises are numerous. Iran, on the other hand, has more non-American investments, and doesn't bow to American attempts to coerce.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:33 AM
 
413 posts, read 909,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Snake View Post
Is Saudi Arabia calling for the destruction of other countries?
I'm guessing you don't speak Farsi, so you don't know what Ahmadinejad actually said, but he called for an end to the Israeli regime, not the extermination of Israeli Jews or anything.

How's that any different from the Bush administration's calls for an end to the regimes of several other nations, including Iraq, which has been accomplished?
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,966,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
Even though I have some Neoconservative leanings (the idea that Western nations can and should overthrow oppressive regimes when and where possible to spread liberal democracy), I am a Realist as well.

Truth be told is that as bad as Saudi Arabia is, it could be a lot worse. The only alternative powerful enough to replace the royal family are the Islamic fundamentalists. The fundamentalists think the House of Saud is too lax and permissive, they want an even harsher reign.

Saudi Arabia: There could be worse.

Iran: The worst has already happened.
Neoconservative=liberal

The Soviet Union embraced expansionism to promote their "utopian" government.

Not everyone wants Democracy, get over yourself.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:13 AM
 
413 posts, read 909,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Neoconservative=liberal
Err...not entirely. Sort of coercively liberal, I suppose, but even that's a mind-bending paradox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VFTP
The Soviet Union embraced expansionism to promote their "utopian" government.

Not everyone wants Democracy, get over yourself.
Expansionism is the ugliest form of foreign policy. I didn't like it when the Soviet Union did it, and I especially despise that my own government is doing it.

The Bush administration has touted "effective democracy" as the antidote to terrorism and the basis for our national strategy for combating terrorism. If one reads it, one cannot help but wonder what idiots must have written that strategy. After all, if "effective democracy" is really the antidote, then who the hell were Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, the Unabomber, the London bombers, etc.? Or is the USA not an effective democracy?

Seriously, democracy can be a good thing, but it's not a perfect form of government, and no nation should be forced to be a democracy. Using military force to install democracy is like raping to install virginity.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,966,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt View Post
Err...not entirely. Sort of coercively liberal, I suppose, but even that's a mind-bending paradox.

Expansionism is the ugliest form of foreign policy. I didn't like it when the Soviet Union did it, and I especially despise that my own government is doing it.

The Bush administration has touted "effective democracy" as the antidote to terrorism and the basis for our national strategy for combating terrorism. If one reads it, one cannot help but wonder what idiots must have written that strategy. After all, if "effective democracy" is really the antidote, then who the hell were Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, the Unabomber, the London bombers, etc.? Or is the USA not an effective democracy?

Seriously, democracy can be a good thing, but it's not a perfect form of government, and no nation should be forced to be a democracy. Using military force to install democracy is like raping to install virginity.
Sorry, neo-conservative = neo-con-munist. Big daddy gubmint lovin' bureaucrats. Of course, all you need is a Texas twang, being pro-life, and substituting inflation for tax increases (ala "tax cuts"), to offer the illusion of conservativism. Karl Rove was definitely da man

Pure Democracy always turns into socialism, as the people perpetually vote in people offering entitlement programs, not realizing that the result is more government control, more entitlement programs, and on and on down the cycle.

Putting a base in Africa is yet another form of feel good globalist neo-con-munism.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:45 AM
 
413 posts, read 909,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
Sorry, neo-conservative = neo-con-munist. Big daddy gubmint lovin' bureaucrats. Of course, all you need is a Texas twang, being pro-life, and substituting inflation for tax increases (ala "tax cuts"), to offer the illusion of conservativism. Karl Rove was definitely da man

Pure Democracy always turns into socialism, as the people perpetually vote in people offering entitlement programs, not realizing that the result is more government control, more entitlement programs, and on and on down the cycle.
Well, we're not even a democratic nation, but rather a republic, but your point is still germane, I think. People vote for the government that promises them benefits.

What's funny is that the conservatives like government money as long as it's called tax cuts or rebates, while liberals like it as long as it's called social entitlements. I'm not a true libertarian, but I'd really like to see both those sides shut up and stop voting for their own bottom line at the expense of the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by View
Putting a base in Africa is yet another form of feel good globalist neo-con-munism.
Well, AFRICOM is really just going to be another regional command, just like EUCOM and PACOM. AFRICOM isn't really another form of anything, but rather an expansion of a current policy of regional strategic positioning.
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