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Old 07-20-2016, 08:35 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,302,166 times
Reputation: 2845

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
Are you implying that in socialism you actually have a choice?
No, we have no choice in either system. At this time in history most have to work for someone else and that is slavery. Some may think it is not slavery because they volunteer for it, but in reality they have no choice. And we do not have real freedom in either system.

The only hope is automation and have machines do all the work. Then we wake up in the morning and HAVE do NOTHING to survive.

Last edited by Julian658; 07-20-2016 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:37 PM
 
5,915 posts, read 4,803,921 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
No, we have no choice in either system. At this time in history most of works have to work for someone else and that is slavery. Some may think it is not slavery because they volunteer for it, but in reality they have no choice. And we do not have real freedom in either system.

The only hope is automation and have machines do all the work. Then we wake up in the morning and HAVE do NOTHING to survive.
In free market capitalism you can start your own business. It's a choice.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:38 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,418,292 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Cravings View Post
So you've never lived in the United States?
He's never lived in Canada either. You cannot take anything this one says seriously.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:21 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,924,224 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I am a Canadian and I had first hand experience with "social democracy" or whatever that is.

I am also an immigrant from a socialist country watching my parents made a living in that country. Yes, I know all the glory about the socialism.

What do you have?
You dont even know the difference between social democracy (free enterprise economy with a strong social safety net funded by taxes) and socialism (workers owning the means of production).
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:22 PM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,302,166 times
Reputation: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik View Post
In free market capitalism you can start your own business. It's a choice.
Yep, and you are enslaved by the clients and the oppressive government regulations. And as you know self employed folks work double the hours and 8 out of 10 small enterprises fail.
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Old 07-21-2016, 01:41 AM
 
33,014 posts, read 12,284,936 times
Reputation: 14724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
That is an American living in Norway.
No. He is an American who previously lived in Norway. He uses the past tense twice between 0:00 and 2:40. At around 2:40 he starts talking about a friend from his last place in Norway who can afford to come visit him in the U.S. because of savings from his earnings working at a food market in Norway that would surprise his U.S. friends (because of the salary).

He was there on a Mormon mission. Not exactly a mainstream experience.

He also mentioned Norway being more of a melting pot than a lot of other European countries. I wonder if someone just told him that. He doesn't mention visiting any other countries.

Comparing Norway to the U.S. re government policy, structure, services for citizens, etc. is ridiculous.

Norway has just over 5.2 million people, the U.S. has 324 million.

Even with about four times the number of immigrants than there were in the early 1990s, the Norwegian population is still over 85% ethnic Norwegian, and an even higher percentage white alone. In the U.S., the white alone percentage is at most 63%.

Even though nearly half of the citizens don't believe in god, over 74 % are still members of the Church of Norway, and protestants overall are at about 80% of the population. In the U.S., just under 50% are Christians of different protestant groups.

^^^^^ Neither composition is intrinsically better than the other of course, but more homogeneity = fewer issues to work through.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund that has over 700 billion USD in assets.

Norway's debt to GDP ratio in 2015 was 31.7%, the U.S.....104%.

Almost 50% of Norway's exports are from oil and gas products. The Norwegian government owns 62% of Statoil, 100% of Petoro (which is much more valuable than Statoil), and 100% of SDFI. Would you want the U.S. Government to attempt to execute a plan with a similar goal in mind?
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Old 07-21-2016, 02:42 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,127,242 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Seriously, what kind of crap is this? Talking about having no clue about socialism.
Tell us why you disagree with the link and why you think it doesnt represent examples of socialism in the USA
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America.
Whats your definition of socialism?

Last edited by jambo101; 07-21-2016 at 04:01 AM..
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Old 07-21-2016, 02:53 AM
 
33,014 posts, read 12,284,936 times
Reputation: 14724
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Socialism is worker co-ops. It has nothing to do with government. Social democracy is a capitalist society with a strong social safety net and programs to ensure equal opportunities. You hate both as you have proudly proclaimed you dont support public schools, public roads and medicare and want to turn America into a third world hell and ensure that businesses flee the country.
Sounds as though you wrote your definition after reading pages on the Democratic Socialists of America website.

It also doesn't sound as though you have never opened an economics textbook.

You left out one important part Democratic Socialism, as practiced in Scandinavian countries, in your above definition.

Also....Can you identify a significant reason why the Social Democratic model in, for example, Sweden doesn't hinder economic growth and why that can't be applied in the U.S. under current law? I doubt you can.

Your post is quite hyperbolic and reactionary.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:04 AM
 
33,014 posts, read 12,284,936 times
Reputation: 14724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Capitalism only makes money if the pay the worker less than his actual productivity. That is a form of slavery dude.
So you don't think the business owner....who either started the business or purchased the business....should get that premium for taking that risk .

Why would anyone start a business, other than a sole proprietorship, if that incentive wasn't available?
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:24 AM
 
33,014 posts, read 12,284,936 times
Reputation: 14724
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Nope; the freedom is not the same. Yours is lacking.
No it isn't. Because Americans who care about the ideals our country was founded upon care more about the maximum/best outcome they can strive for, create, etc. not a collective data point for the whole society that ranks higher than some other country. If that weren't the case, then no Canadians would ever come to the U.S. for various medical treatments that they can't get at the same level within the same time frame in Canada.
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