Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2016, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,768 posts, read 1,583,548 times
Reputation: 3049

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The war was about slavery. Just read the secession documents.
I don't believe it was that simple, at all.

The war was about states' rights vs. federal gov't power. Slavery was the issue that manifest the states' rights vs. federal power controversy.

However, from the very beginning of colonisation of what would become the US, the colonies were jealous of their individual sovereignty and to great degrees distrusted each other. It took oppressive acts by British Parliament to unite the colonies in war against GB, and when the war was ended, each of the original 13 colonies signed the peace treaty with GB individually, as sovereign states (state = nation).

When the original states formed the Articles of Confederacy, they did so as free and sovereign states, and again jealously guarded their freedom and independence.

When it became obvious that the AOC could not efficiently do what was needed, the states convened a constitutional convention and debated long as to the new form of the general (federal) government and regarding how to limit the power of the new general government.

The federalists debated the anti-federalists (then called republicans), and finally, the federalists convinced the anti-federalists that the new general government would be limited in powers and that the states would reserve their traditional rights and powers and autonomy.

Almost from the start, the federalists in the new government began over-stepping the limits set in the new constitution. In the 1790s, a case in the Georgia courts regarding a dispute over money owed to a private citizen loaned for the war was taken by the new Supreme Court, despite no power being granted SCOTUS to adjudicate such cases.

Of course, the industrial north did not rely on slave labor the way the agricultural south did, but, surely the northerners, excluding abolitionists, were no friends of black slaves (or later free men).

In any case, the argument over states' rights vs. federal power was an ongoing one that culminated in the US Civil War. Yes, then, slavery was the issue that manifest the dispute between states' rights and federal power. But, it was states' rights that the south fought for. Lowly Confederate soldiers, the vast majority of whom did not own slaves, often stated that they were fighting the revolution over again, for freedom from an over-bearing federal government.

Prior to the Civil War, people referred to and said, the United States ARE... Only after the Civil War did we begin to say, The United States IS...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-06-2016, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Asia
2,768 posts, read 1,583,548 times
Reputation: 3049
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
Not for Southerners. They'll do more backflips than an American gymnast at the Olympics to say it was the war of northern aggression.
It was a war of northern aggression.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Anything that goes against absolute subjugation of human freedom for the sake of the Holy State is viewed as wrong. Humans are merely subjects/slaves in the eyes of those who worship the thug State.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2016, 10:59 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
All the SJW wining makes me want to purchase one
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
4,750 posts, read 3,567,077 times
Reputation: 4614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
It was and Lincoln was responsible for the deaths of 750,000. Slavery was peacefully abolished elsewhere in the world without any such war.
Those Southerners seemed like they were willing to give that up post haste, didn't they?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2016, 01:21 PM
 
7,975 posts, read 7,351,944 times
Reputation: 12046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I'm going to go out and find all kinds of pins, buttons, hats, and the flag itself to wear and fly because I no longer give a damn if someone gets butthurt over something like this. If it hurts their feelings, who cares.

There comes a point when a segment pushes people too far...those people rise up and rebel. It is definitely coming if these clown shoes don't stop their sniveling and nastiness - and I will absolutely join in that rebellion. I'm tired of these jackasses.


I just called DH about this...he has a seasonal flea market business (his retirement hobby). If Gadsten flag items are going to be condemned like Confederate flag items, he'd better start stocking up on them. They, like the Confederate flag, will sell like hot cakes once they are deemed politically incorrect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2016, 02:21 PM
 
15,531 posts, read 10,501,555 times
Reputation: 15812
All this flag nonsense is a bunch of baloney. Hope they don't go after my favorite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_...rd_England.svg
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2016, 07:13 AM
 
4,798 posts, read 3,508,949 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
I know when it's from - - I also know the kind of people who I see flying it proudly today. I'm not into hanging out with angry paranoid white guy.
The US NAVY flys it too. Think about it. The fact that many people see hate in flags shows their ignorance.
ANd people that call people racists and bigots usually are the real racists and bigots. They are the ones who say, "I have all kinds of black friends"..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2016, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,703 posts, read 21,054,375 times
Reputation: 14247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
It was and Lincoln was responsible for the deaths of 750,000. Slavery was peacefully abolished elsewhere in the world without any such war.

really-? I read the Brits/ Europeans killed a few hundred African children--- not too long ago
this mishandling of people OF other color -came from there-
In the past, tribes fought each other for land and booty-- but had nothing to do with color of skin- then Hitler with the stupid master race thing- and some still stuck there- what we need is some semi-friendly aliens from another planet to land and straighten our razzes right out.
the flag represented another era- we need to learn then move on from the past-

Last edited by tinytrump; 08-07-2016 at 08:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2016, 08:20 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
really-? I read the Brits/ Europeans killed a few hundred African children--- not too long ago
this mishandling of people OF other color -came from there-
In the past, tribes fought each other for land and booty-- but had nothing to do with color of skin- then Hitler with the stupid master race thing- and some still stuck there- what we need is some semi-friendly aliens from another planet to land and straighten our razzes right out.
the flag represented another era- we need to learn then move on from the past-
Babble on at least you don't refute the fact that Lincolns war unnecessarily killed 750k
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top