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Old 08-09-2016, 09:51 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Not necessarily. You can get there by working hard and saving too. My FIL made a few million in his lifetime by helping others. He opened a real estate office and employed others. Many people who make money do so by employing others and helping them by allowing them to earn a living. Others live frugally and save their money. You don't have to exploit others to earn money.
If one only receives what they have offered others in exchange, they have made a "profit" of zero. If they make a zero profit they do not amass excess.

However, I will agree that one can provide others more than they "spend" on themselves, "saving" that inbalance by producing more than their "overhead". But what is often the case in our system of exploitation is that there are those who provide far less than they receive in exchange. A lawyer's lifetime of labor is "leveraged" into somehow being magically "worth" more than fifty carpenter's lives of labor. "Leverage" is not value. An hour of the life of a lawyer is not worth fifty hours of a carpenter's life. The absurdity is only true in a system of "leverage" and exploitation. When these "superior beings" amass wealth, they do so by a lifetime of exploiting others not because they have "saved" their excess production or because they offered more to others than they have spent. They have consolidated their exploitation of others. And they feel entitled to this exploitation because they feel themselves superior to their fellow man.

Of course this does not touch the absurdity of "money earning even more money" whereby one consolidates the wealth of others simply because they already have an excess amount of money. Financial parasites feed off those with lack of wealth. Money produces, creates, and "invests", nothing. Those who "earn" money with usury or other money scams are an abomination and should never exist. A parasitic race that the world needs to eradicate if humanity is to ever know freedom.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:56 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
If one only receives what they have offered others in exchange, they have made a "profit" of zero. If they make a zero profit they do not amass excess.

However, I will agree that one can provide others more than they "spend" on themselves, "saving" that inbalance by producing more than their "overhead". But what is often the case in our system of exploitation is that there are those who provide far less than they receive in exchange. A lawyer's lifetime of labor is "leveraged" into somehow being magically "worth" more than fifty carpenter's lives of labor. "Leverage" is not value. An hour of the life of a lawyer is not worth fifty hours of a carpenter's life. The absurdity is only true in a system of "leverage" and exploitation. When these "superior beings" amass wealth, they do so by a lifetime of exploiting others not because they have "saved" their excess production or because they offered more to others than they have spent. They have consolidated their exploitation of others. And they feel entitled to this exploitation because they feel themselves superior to their fellow man.

Of course this does not touch the absurdity of "money earning even more money" whereby one consolidates the wealth of others simply because they already have an excess amount of money. Financial parasites feed off those with lack of wealth. Money produces, creates, and "invests", nothing. Those who "earn" money with usury or other money scams are an abomination and should never exist. A parasitic race that the world needs to eradicate if humanity is to ever know freedom.
Making one's life more comfortable is an excellent motivator. ROI is an excellent innovation motivator. Motivation is key to improving your life while tending to improve the lives of others.

I have no problem with people making money because they have it, because investment is good for most people.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Secure Bunker
5,461 posts, read 3,234,036 times
Reputation: 5269
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
We tax double all the time. Thats a ridiculous argument for supporting the donor class who buy your politician. Tell us, how many trade deals have you received lately. The billionaire class BUY your politician in order to gain favors on your behalf. And you applaud it and say; here exploit me some more! Why dont you send your money straight to the billionaire class instead of voting for them? They will get your money either way.

And statistics prove it! Over the past 40 years, we have seen a massive transfer of wealth and income from working stiffs to the super rich. And our democracy is rapidly turning into a plutocracy. Want to run for office? Its basically impossible without begging the rich and the powerful for money. Whats so great about that?
"We tax double all the time."

-- So that makes it OK?

"Thats a ridiculous argument for supporting the donor class who buy your politician."

- What? I never said anything of the sort.

"And you applaud it"

- Where did I ever say that?


>>> Stop hyperventilating.

Somehow you think that the Death tax is going to mean more integrity in government and society. It's a silly, vapid argument.

Your real goal here isn't a better society. Your real goal is an infantile compulsion to punish the rich.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:43 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,611,558 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
"We tax double all the time."

-- So that makes it OK?

"Thats a ridiculous argument for supporting the donor class who buy your politician."

- What? I never said anything of the sort.

"And you applaud it"

- Where did I ever say that?


>>> Stop hyperventilating.

Somehow you think that the Death tax is going to mean more integrity in government and society. It's a silly, vapid argument.

Your real goal here isn't a better society. Your real goal is an infantile compulsion to punish the rich.

His stance proves it is nothing but a Jealousy Tax, to pacify those that vote, to give it to them.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,357,274 times
Reputation: 23853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro5 View Post
The threshold at which estate taxes have to be paid is far greater than the amount most people would inherit.

A filing is required for estates with combined gross assets and prior taxable gifts exceeding $5,450,000 in 2016.
Yup. About 90% of us will never leave an inheritance large enough to be taxed.

It wasn't always like this, though. For a long time, the estate tax threshold was much lower. It hit farm families particularly hard, as many family farmland was worth only a fraction of what it became worth decades later. Farms also have a ton of investment in expensive machinery and equipment. So farm estates became vastly wealthy on paper, but the assets had no liquidity. A farm might have a million dollar investment in it, but if no one wants to buy the farm, it's not worth very much in real dollars.

Many farmers barely got by, but they looked like millionaires on paper.

The threshold was raised far above the level of most farm's paper worth. But for whatever reasons, lots of folks still don't realize they don't have to face the inheritance tax like they once did.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:10 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,394 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Money is not the root of all evil. Money is a way to trade your four goats for a apple tree without having to haul around four goats. Money is supposed to be a note against labor or resources. The problem occurs when government switches money to an arbitrary idea which they manipulate for their advantage.

We need our currency to return to a note with value such as gold or silver. It needs to be backed by an actual resource.
However money is not a note against labor/resources. Instead of being a medium of exchange, it is a medium of exploitation. Would people really trade a hundred hours of labor for a single hour of labor of another? They may, but that has nothing to do with exchange. That has to do with the "leverage" or exploitation applied by one upon another. An hour of the life of a lawyer is not worth a hundred hours of the life of a carpenter. We equate "value" with whatever level of leverage one can apply to another. Who trades 100 goats for a single goat? This is what "money" allows and justifies. Again, societies lasting much longer than ours have operated quite well without money (or the money changers and shylocks that love the money token system that grants them a personal slave race that uses the "money".) Why don't we have a labor/time currency? Because there is nothing about such a currency that can be exploited. Because there are no money scams that can take advantage of it. Because the Money Cartel could not consolidate humanity's resources for themselves.

As to gold, you are well aware that the gold hoarders like the Rothschilds manipulated to value of gold-backed currency at will by manipulating how much gold was in the market at any given time. Causing wild fluctuations of value of currency, inflation, and "panics". Leading us to legalizing their slave plantation here in 1913. Any commodity that can be hoarded and/or is not readily available or easily produced by everyone will lead to the same sorts of parasites taking over the world.

Furthermore, "money" allows people to amass more than they ever produce. A time/labor currency satisfies all of the supposed benefits of money tokens but it does not legalize nor "justify": usury, counterfeiting, exploitation, consolidation of humanity's wealth into the hands of a small elite. It also does not allow one person's life to be worth sometimes countless lives of others. You only receive the labor that you contribute to others and not one "hour" more. The richest that one could be is that amount of their life that they have labored for the benefit of others.

Since money is only a medium of exchange. Why would anyone have a shortage of something that is essentially nothing more than a system of IOUs? IOUs, and "money", produces and does, nothing in and of itself. It is only people's labor/time which produces anything, which has any real value. And people have only one life to "invest", so there is no reason for anyone being able to "earn" more than the sum of their life's labor/time. We can certainly agree to disagree here. I understand that the people have been brainwashed to believe that their lives are "worth" more than the lives of others in the modern version of the human "exchange". And this brainwashing is really only meant to make the slaves support the scams of the Money Cartel.

Eliminate usury, fiat currency, partial reserve banking, and a "legal tender" monopoly (for both private groups and government) and "money" would be better. But as long as humans support a system of leverage and exploitation rather than a system of exchange, nothing is going to improve in human relationships...
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:17 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,727,592 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
"We tax double all the time."

-- So that makes it OK?
I find it not-at-all coincidental that the people who argue against "Double Taxation" always use that as justification for not taxing capital, not taxing inheritance, or not taxing corporations.

None of them ever use it as justification for ending taxes on wages. Funny how that works.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,357,575 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Since money is only a medium of exchange. Why would anyone have a shortage of something that is essentially nothing more than a system of IOUs?
If I had a dollar for every time I implied or asked this question in my life my name on this forum would be No_Recess Rockefeller.

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Old 08-09-2016, 11:23 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,542,326 times
Reputation: 6392
Dems are all criminals - they want to steal everyone's money.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,732,744 times
Reputation: 6593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
People who believe there should be no inheritance tax on Americans who inherit billions simply because they were born into a wealthy family, could you please explain whats so great about creating a new aristocracy in America? Isn't America supposed to be about fairness and equal opportunities, and not economic royalists who didn't work for their wealth?
There are two schools of thought here:
A.) That guy has money and must be punished for it!!
B.) What right does the US government have to take anybody's money for any reason? We should reduce and/or eliminate as many taxes as possible!

Option A sounds a lot like Communism, and we all know how well that worked out. Option B is more capitalistic and sensible. Sure, it offends people's sense of fairness. I can say for certain that I'm not going to be inheriting much of anything. But some people build wealth and corporate empires. Some of them hand that off to their children before they die. Some people just work harder to make sure that their children are taken care of after they're dead. Meanwhile, here in the USA, empires die all the time. Remember when Sears was absolutely massive? Woolworths? Kodak? AOL? American Motor Company? Remember when Chrysler was not owned by Fiat? Eastern Airlines? RCA? TWA? MCI Worldcom? Standard Oil? Pam Am? Empires fall and die while new ones are created.

It's not like the old days when a permanent aristocracy owns all the land and all the people that lived on the land. We live in a land where anybody can potentially make themselves fabulously wealthy even when they start from nothing. That hasn't changed and there are rich investors looking to enable the next big idea all the time.
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