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Old 08-12-2016, 07:50 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,153,979 times
Reputation: 28335

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I believe people can be born gay or born with a body that doesn't match their gender identity. It's not their fault and they are who they are. I think they have very right to be happy.

Let kids play with the toys they want to play with and play in the manner they want to play.

If I let my son dress how he wanted, he'd be going to school every day as either a ninja or a storm trooper. I make him were the appropriate clothes, not the ones that make him happy. A little boy might want to wear a dress, but I don't think parents should allow that. Once they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on an adult level, they can choose for themselves.

Part of your job as a parent is to teach your children social norms. When it comes down to it, stopping practically anywhere to pee is natural, but we teach our children not to pee in the front yard or on a tree in the park but in a restroom (exceptions made for camping and hiking). Picking your nose to remove boogers is quite natural, but we teach them to wait until they can go blow their nose.

It's practical to have kids dress to match their gender because clothing is a human construct. In Scotland that skirt is a manly kilt, but in the US it's a skirt.

I am think it's horribly wrong for a parent to do anything medically to a child that has any type of gender identity issues. Once they are an adult, that is a different matter altogether.

If you have a little boy who wants to wear dresses, don't belittle or berate him, just explain that he's not allowed to until he's older. Just because my 10-year-old daughter has a very strong desire to drive a car, there is no way I'm tossing her the keys. I just tell her she has to wait until she's older.
This is a very good way of explaining how I and probably a majority of people without some underlying agenda feel about the matter.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:08 AM
 
13,586 posts, read 13,115,850 times
Reputation: 17786
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
If society didn't cram gender roles down kids' (and other people's) throats, I guarantee you 90% of this "transgender" issue would disappear.
I usually read a whole thread before responding, but THAT is a very good point. In fact, an almost profound point. It's not our genitalia that's the problem, is it? It's society trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. ( no pun intended )

I had a distant cousin who was born a hermaphrodite. They waited until puberty until they did surgery.

I also encountered a patient who had no sex organs at all. No ovaries. No visible testes. No vagina. No penis. Just a urethra. That patient was very tall, identified as female, and was so intensely private and tense when she came to our office. I can't imagine the stress. We all just want to fit in.

What these parents did is a travesty if this is in fact true, and if the doctor did this, he needs to go to jail. This is NOT a decision that others should get to make for you. I don't care if it's your parent.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Coastal South Carolina
6,417 posts, read 1,430,476 times
Reputation: 5287
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I believe people can be born gay or born with a body that doesn't match their gender identity. It's not their fault and they are who they are. I think they have very right to be happy.

Let kids play with the toys they want to play with and play in the manner they want to play.

If I let my son dress how he wanted, he'd be going to school every day as either a ninja or a storm trooper. I make him were the appropriate clothes, not the ones that make him happy. A little boy might want to wear a dress, but I don't think parents should allow that. Once they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on an adult level, they can choose for themselves.

Part of your job as a parent is to teach your children social norms. When it comes down to it, stopping practically anywhere to pee is natural, but we teach our children not to pee in the front yard or on a tree in the park but in a restroom (exceptions made for camping and hiking). Picking your nose to remove boogers is quite natural, but we teach them to wait until they can go blow their nose.

It's practical to have kids dress to match their gender because clothing is a human construct. In Scotland that skirt is a manly kilt, but in the US it's a skirt.

I am think it's horribly wrong for a parent to do anything medically to a child that has any type of gender identity issues. Once they are an adult, that is a different matter altogether.

If you have a little boy who wants to wear dresses, don't belittle or berate him, just explain that he's not allowed to until he's older. Just because my 10-year-old daughter has a very strong desire to drive a car, there is no way I'm tossing her the keys. I just tell her she has to wait until she's older.
I agree with you Sir, only difference I have is if my little boy wanted to wear a dress, he would not be allowed, and he would not be allowed when he is older either! (nor would he ever want this!).

If I read the story correctly, the child is very young 5 years old and is having this procedure. It is very sad this has happened!! It's a travesty, and I agree the parents should be serving some time locked up.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,844,780 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I'm sorry, but I'm not grasping what you are explaining here....
are you stating that it is horrible to be TG, or it's horrible what these people did to this child?

Both. It isn't easy to explain. It's horrifying. Before hormone therapy I wanted to die. Every day. It took three years of therapy to undo all of that damage, so I could be cleared for hormones. I have a blog post called "MY story" here. It would take a while to explain here. It's not something a sane person would choose, it's not a choice at all.

As for the parents, I hope to God they are right. For the child's sake.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,844,780 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
However, my guess is, its not nearly as prevelent as Transgenders would like you to believe...
It's relatively rare, yes.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,844,780 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I believe people can be born gay or born with a body that doesn't match their gender identity. It's not their fault and they are who they are. I think they have very right to be happy.

Let kids play with the toys they want to play with and play in the manner they want to play.

If I let my son dress how he wanted, he'd be going to school every day as either a ninja or a storm trooper. I make him were the appropriate clothes, not the ones that make him happy. A little boy might want to wear a dress, but I don't think parents should allow that. Once they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on an adult level, they can choose for themselves.

Part of your job as a parent is to teach your children social norms. When it comes down to it, stopping practically anywhere to pee is natural, but we teach our children not to pee in the front yard or on a tree in the park but in a restroom (exceptions made for camping and hiking). Picking your nose to remove boogers is quite natural, but we teach them to wait until they can go blow their nose.

It's practical to have kids dress to match their gender because clothing is a human construct. In Scotland that skirt is a manly kilt, but in the US it's a skirt.

I am think it's horribly wrong for a parent to do anything medically to a child that has any type of gender identity issues. Once they are an adult, that is a different matter altogether.

If you have a little boy who wants to wear dresses, don't belittle or berate him, just explain that he's not allowed to until he's older. Just because my 10-year-old daughter has a very strong desire to drive a car, there is no way I'm tossing her the keys. I just tell her she has to wait until she's older.

I agree with everything here.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,452 posts, read 4,750,199 times
Reputation: 15354
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731 View Post
They sure did. I thought they were jumping the gun a bit but he's been to many psychologists. They started dressing him in girls clothing and Liam became Lia. Surgery was the next step. Now I've known many effeminate guys in my life - some have come out of the closet and some are happily married to women.

Today's society seems to think that if you don't make these types of decisions early on - you damage the child - I'd rather let the child grow up and explore their own options when and if they are ready.


I have a hard time believing this would be legal, at least not in a developed nation. Either your friends live in some third world nation with no laws or this story is BS. The way you just dropped that little bomb and then pretty much abandoned the thread makes me suspect the latter is the case.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,836,106 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I believe people can be born gay or born with a body that doesn't match their gender identity. It's not their fault and they are who they are. I think they have very right to be happy.

Let kids play with the toys they want to play with and play in the manner they want to play.

If I let my son dress how he wanted, he'd be going to school every day as either a ninja or a storm trooper. I make him were the appropriate clothes, not the ones that make him happy. A little boy might want to wear a dress, but I don't think parents should allow that. Once they are old enough to make reasoned decisions on an adult level, they can choose for themselves.

Part of your job as a parent is to teach your children social norms. When it comes down to it, stopping practically anywhere to pee is natural, but we teach our children not to pee in the front yard or on a tree in the park but in a restroom (exceptions made for camping and hiking). Picking your nose to remove boogers is quite natural, but we teach them to wait until they can go blow their nose.

It's practical to have kids dress to match their gender because clothing is a human construct. In Scotland that skirt is a manly kilt, but in the US it's a skirt.

I am think it's horribly wrong for a parent to do anything medically to a child that has any type of gender identity issues. Once they are an adult, that is a different matter altogether.

If you have a little boy who wants to wear dresses, don't belittle or berate him, just explain that he's not allowed to until he's older. Just because my 10-year-old daughter has a very strong desire to drive a car, there is no way I'm tossing her the keys. I just tell her she has to wait until she's older.
We all wanted to be like adults at that age and younger. Copied them incessantly. Hence the PSA about adults smoking in front of their kids in the 1970s. Perhaps a parent who fosters a child's curiousity is also the problem in all this.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:47 AM
 
34,619 posts, read 21,607,699 times
Reputation: 22232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver-Fox View Post
I agree with you Sir, only difference I have is if my little boy wanted to wear a dress, he would not be allowed, and he would not be allowed when he is older either! (nor would he ever want this!).

If I read the story correctly, the child is very young 5 years old and is having this procedure. It is very sad this has happened!! It's a travesty, and I agree the parents should be serving some time locked up.
I agree that you shouldn't allow your little boy to wear a dress; however, once he matures physically and mentally into an adult, it should be his choice. If he was unfortunate enough to be born into a body that doesn't match his gender identity, he will have plenty of obstacles to overcome, so I would hope that being shamed by the people who should love him is not another.

When I was growing up, I didn't actually believe there were really gay people. The concept that a boy could be attracted to another boy made no sense to me. Calling someone gay was meant as purely an insult in my mind. You could insult someone by calling them an ass, but they weren't actually an ass.

I think most people who don't believe in gender dysphoria just can't believe it because it doesn't compute from their perspective.

Lucky for you, and your son, the odds of him being transgender is remote.

I hope my son doesn't have gender identity issues, not because I'd be ashamed of him, but because of the issues he'd have to cope with.

Let's not belittle people who have to deal with something that was not their choice.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,133,005 times
Reputation: 14777
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I'm sorry if I confused you....
I'm not for what these parents did to this child at all....

and reason being is...

I grew up in a neighborhood full of boys...the only other girls were my two sisters...

I wanted so much, as a child, to be a boy...play football, baseball, etc. Even wet my hair in the morning and combed it like a boy. I thought I was an ugly kid...then one day, in my early teens, I looked in the mirror and found the girl I was...and I liked her. But as a child, my mother bought me, dolls, a play dish and tea set, stove, etc...and refused to play with them. I wanted a football, baseball glove, etc....

so, while this mother thinks her child is flamboyant and acting feminine, I still think it is so totally wrong of her to get this child an operation. When the child turns 18, then he can decide.

I guess what I'm trying to say it, I try very hard to understand people who are TG. And I do believe there are people born girls who should have been born boys. It happens...just like siamese twins happens, something happens in the womb. However, my guess is, its not nearly as prevelent as Transgenders would like you to believe...

When I was explaining about my friend's brother being a TG, what I was trying to say is, I believe in my heart...he loved her so much, and looked up to her, idolized her, and wanted to be her...so he became in his own mind, his sister. His sister was an amazing woman....

Does that make sense?
I totally agree with your post - great post! Everybody wants to be accepted. If you are young and surrounded by another sex and feel that they have all the fun; it would only be natural for any child to wish they were of another gender.

My problem with all of this in kids is this is a fine line. Once you proclaim to your school, to your parents, to the world that you do not fit into the skin you were born in; then it is hard to ever go back. I'm not an ostrich; I know that our kids are sexually active at a very young age. However; no sex belongs in school - no heterosexual, homosexual, lesbian or any other variety should our tax dollars sponsor from kindergarten through grade 12. HS isn't Woodstock; let that happen in college or after HS. At least then most are of legal age and can make these life altering decisions without childish emotions.

If I were to take a picture of a naked woman into the men's Locker room in HS or you would take a picture of any naked man into the woman's locker room in any HS; I am sure that we would be charged with corrupting the morals of minors. However; these new laws say that we have to accommodate and that I do not think is right. The only way I can picture this working is with single stall unisex bathrooms and that we would not offend anybody.
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