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I'm sure the Christians ask for accommodations. I worked with a lot of devout evangelical Christians per above post. All of them asked for Sunday off. It is TX, a religious state so of course they would have Christians ask for Sunday off.
I doubt the sherrif department even keeps track of their accommodations and why they were given and to whom. I've found a lot of organizations do not and it is important to track this sort of information and to keep records to ensure if you are sued that you have proof that you do provide religious accommodations according to the law and don't discriminate against religious minorities. As I am apt to believe they are discriminating against this woman due to her being an Orthodox Jew and if she were a Christian they wouldn't have a problem.
And again, similar to the woman with the headscarf who was a Muslim in another thread, it is against best practices in regards to HR to ask people about their religious beliefs during the interview process because it can be seen as a discriminatory question and especially so if the person doesn't get the job.
You're sure....of what? YOU don't actually KNOW what this office's policies were. I live in AR, a MORE religious state than TX, and the staff in the sheriff's department have rotating schedules to cover the weekends. Nobody gets every Saturday off, nobody gets every Sunday off. Christians work on Sundays. And since there are multiple services, some might go to church AND go to work on Sundays.
You're sure....of what? YOU don't actually KNOW what this office's policies were. I live in AR, a MORE religious state than TX, and the staff in the sheriff's department have rotating schedules to cover the weekends. Nobody gets every Saturday off, nobody gets every Sunday off. Christians work on Sundays. And since there are multiple services, some might go to church AND go to work on Sundays.
That's different though. Most first-day Christians dont believe in keeping the whole day holy. Sabbath-keepers, whether Jews or Christians, do. But that being said, those are the types of jobs Sabbath keepers should avoid.
That's different though. Most first-day Christians dont believe in keeping the whole day holy. Sabbath-keepers, whether Jews or Christians, do. But that being said, those are the types of jobs Sabbath keepers should avoid.
What's different?
This job requires people to be available 24/7. The requirements are the same for everyone. This lady notified them before starting work that she could not meet the requirements of the job. They rescinded the job offer because she could not meet the requirements of the job. In order to prove discrimination, she must prove that the sheriff's office doesn't require its employees to be available, on-call, 24/7. If she cannot prove that, her lawsuit is without merit.
This job requires people to be available 24/7. The requirements are the same for everyone. This lady notified them before starting work that she could not meet the requirements of the job. They rescinded the job offer because she could not meet the requirements of the job. In order to prove discrimination, she must prove that the sheriff's office doesn't require its employees to be available, on-call, 24/7. If she cannot prove that, her lawsuit is without merit.
Actually all she has to do is have her lawyer do an Open Records request and ask to see their log of accommodations and they can review those accommodations to see if the department provided any religious accommodations to other employees of this nature. If they have and especially if all of them were Christians or Muslims and there were no Jewish accommodations, she would win the case.
I have worked with a lot of government agencies, mostly in the same industry, but as many know, government doesn't always do a good job of keeping track of things and due to my work especially having a lot do to with ADA in particular, I know that tracking accommodations, the reasons for the accommodations, whether they were denied or approved and why for either option, is something that is ALWAYS asked for when you get sued (and every place gets sued for accommodations because you always have someone who thinks they are special and feels they need to be accommodated). If you have your ducks in order or if these laws don't apply to your organization due to the size of your organization, or if you are a non-profit and can prohibit people who are not followers of your religion from being employed, then you won't face many if any repercussions. But the sherrif department is a large organization in a major metro area. They are also a government based organization and so should be following the law in regards to accommodations and best practices in regards to tracking accommodations. If they do not, then they'll lose the case.
The lady did not say she could not meet the requirements of the job. Everyone gets days off even if it is a 24/7 operation that are scheduled. She asked to leave 30 minutes early on the sabbath. That does not mean that she cannot perform her duties. Also, that means that she did have a set schedule IMO. They could have adjusted her schedule to start 30 minutes early so she could work a full shift.
Honestly, I'm not sure why they wouldn't accommodate her for such a miniscule amount of time. It was only requested for the winter months too when sunset is earlier due to the end of daylight savings time. I guess when I did HR and logged accommodations and approved/denied them that I was more in the eye of looking out for my organization due to knowing how lawyers can cost $5000 a month and $500 an hour (or more) for any sort of work they do in an HR capacity and that that is a waste of money for 30 minutes of a shift or any other trivial religious thing someone requests. I think many of you are just not looking at reality and are inserting your own idea about what is "right" to you. Everyone has an idea of what is right for them individually. The law is pretty clear on religious accommodations. But eh...she may lose, who knows. But even if she does she has cost that department WAY more money in legal fees versus if they would have just let her take off 30 minutes earlier on Fridays. I'm a bottom line sort of person in these situations. The one case where I did not authorize an accommodation cost the organization I worked for over $100k in legal fees because it lasted over a year. We won the case, which I knew we would, but it was a tough decision to deny that accommodation since we knew that anytime an accommodation is denied, we will be sued.
Actually all she has to do is have her lawyer do an Open Records request and ask to see their log of accommodations and they can review those accommodations to see if the department provided any religious accommodations to other employees of this nature. If they have and especially if all of them were Christians or Muslims and there were no Jewish accommodations, she would win the case.
I have worked with a lot of government agencies, mostly in the same industry, but as many know, government doesn't always do a good job of keeping track of things and due to my work especially having a lot do to with ADA in particular, I know that tracking accommodations, the reasons for the accommodations, whether they were denied or approved and why for either option, is something that is ALWAYS asked for when you get sued (and every place gets sued for accommodations because you always have someone who thinks they are special and feels they need to be accommodated). If you have your ducks in order or if these laws don't apply to your organization due to the size of your organization, or if you are a non-profit and can prohibit people who are not followers of your religion from being employed, then you won't face many if any repercussions. But the sherrif department is a large organization in a major metro area. They are also a government based organization and so should be following the law in regards to accommodations and best practices in regards to tracking accommodations. If they do not, then they'll lose the case.
The lady did not say she could not meet the requirements of the job. Everyone gets days off even if it is a 24/7 operation that are scheduled. She asked to leave 30 minutes early on the sabbath. That does not mean that she cannot perform her duties. Also, that means that she did have a set schedule IMO. They could have adjusted her schedule to start 30 minutes early so she could work a full shift.
Honestly, I'm not sure why they wouldn't accommodate her for such a miniscule amount of time. It was only requested for the winter months too when sunset is earlier due to the end of daylight savings time. I guess when I did HR and logged accommodations and approved/denied them that I was more in the eye of looking out for my organization due to knowing how lawyers can cost $5000 a month and $500 an hour (or more) for any sort of work they do in an HR capacity and that that is a waste of money for 30 minutes of a shift or any other trivial religious thing someone requests. I think many of you are just not looking at reality and are inserting your own idea about what is "right" to you. Everyone has an idea of what is right for them individually. The law is pretty clear on religious accommodations. But eh...she may lose, who knows. But even if she does she has cost that department WAY more money in legal fees versus if they would have just let her take off 30 minutes earlier on Fridays. I'm a bottom line sort of person in these situations. The one case where I did not authorize an accommodation cost the organization I worked for over $100k in legal fees because it lasted over a year. We won the case, which I knew we would, but it was a tough decision to deny that accommodation since we knew that anytime an accommodation is denied, we will be sued.
It wasn't just 30 minutes on Fridays during the winter. It was EVERY Friday night and EVERY Saturday.
Every office has to accommodate an employee on occasion. But if the occasion is EVERY week, then that can be problematic. Especially since Friday nights and Saturdays are prized time-offs for employees who are on call 24/7.
Actually all she has to do is have her lawyer do an Open Records request and ask to see their log of accommodations and they can review those accommodations to see if the department provided any religious accommodations to other employees of this nature. If they have and especially if all of them were Christians or Muslims and there were no Jewish accommodations, she would win the case.
I have worked with a lot of government agencies, mostly in the same industry, but as many know, government doesn't always do a good job of keeping track of things and due to my work especially having a lot do to with ADA in particular, I know that tracking accommodations, the reasons for the accommodations, whether they were denied or approved and why for either option, is something that is ALWAYS asked for when you get sued (and every place gets sued for accommodations because you always have someone who thinks they are special and feels they need to be accommodated). If you have your ducks in order or if these laws don't apply to your organization due to the size of your organization, or if you are a non-profit and can prohibit people who are not followers of your religion from being employed, then you won't face many if any repercussions. But the sheriff department is a large organization in a major metro area. They are also a government based organization and so should be following the law in regards to accommodations and best practices in regards to tracking accommodations. If they do not, then they'll lose the case.
The lady did not say she could not meet the requirements of the job. Everyone gets days off even if it is a 24/7 operation that are scheduled. She asked to leave 30 minutes early on the sabbath. That does not mean that she cannot perform her duties. Also, that means that she did have a set schedule IMO. They could have adjusted her schedule to start 30 minutes early so she could work a full shift.
Honestly, I'm not sure why they wouldn't accommodate her for such a minuscule amount of time. It was only requested for the winter months too when sunset is earlier due to the end of daylight savings time. I guess when I did HR and logged accommodations and approved/denied them that I was more in the eye of looking out for my organization due to knowing how lawyers can cost $5000 a month and $500 an hour (or more) for any sort of work they do in an HR capacity and that that is a waste of money for 30 minutes of a shift or any other trivial religious thing someone requests. I think many of you are just not looking at reality and are inserting your own idea about what is "right" to you. Everyone has an idea of what is right for them individually. The law is pretty clear on religious accommodations. But eh...she may lose, who knows. But even if she does she has cost that department WAY more money in legal fees versus if they would have just let her take off 30 minutes earlier on Fridays. I'm a bottom line sort of person in these situations. The one case where I did not authorize an accommodation cost the organization I worked for over $100k in legal fees because it lasted over a year. We won the case, which I knew we would, but it was a tough decision to deny that accommodation since we knew that anytime an accommodation is denied, we will be sued.
You're stuck on the 30 minute part which is actually 25.5 hours of unavailability. In this type of IT there is a fixed schedule AND a "on call" schedule. The 30 minute part is the easy part. It's the "on call" schedule part that is the issue. Usually Orthodox Jews are placed at the end of "on call" schedule for the Sabbath. She wanted to be removed completely from the list for that time period. These lists are very short as they have only a limited amount of people that can respond to certain types of issues. The only way to make the level 1 "on call" list longer is to outsource to a 3rd party company (thus an additional expense). Level 2 requires someone to enter the site. See the problem?
It wasn't just 30 minutes on Fridays during the winter. It was EVERY Friday night and EVERY Saturday.
Every office has to accommodate an employee on occasion. But if the occasion is EVERY week, then that can be problematic. Especially since Friday nights and Saturdays are prized time-offs for employees who are on call 24/7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany
You're stuck on the 30 minute part which is actually 25.5 hours of unavailability. In this type of IT there is a fixed schedule AND a "on call" schedule. The 30 minute part is the easy part. It's the "on call" schedule part that is the issue. Usually Orthodox Jews are placed at the end of "on call" schedule for the Sabbath. She wanted to be removed completely from the list for that time period. These lists are very short as they have only a limited amount of people that can respond to certain types of issues. The only way to make the level 1 "on call" list longer is to outsource to a 3rd party company (thus an additional expense). Level 2 requires someone to enter the site. See the problem?
I'm not "stuck" on the Friday thing. I mentioned Saturday as well in a previous post. But the Friday one is the most crazy IMO. ETA: the OP did say Friday would only be an issue in the winter due to daylight savings time. Sundown during summer and spring is not until later in the day.
Also, you both are getting overly emotional IMO about the situation, in direct opposite to what I am doing.
As stated, I worked in a position to authorize accommodations, both from an ADA and from a religious standpoint. I only once denied an ADA accommodation and never denied a religious accommodation because I know that it costs a lot and it is better to just to accommodate, which is always an option. I think you just don't understand this and are more willing to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
All the places I worked, I'd rather keep that money in our budgets so maybe it can be rolled into a raise or something
I'm not "stuck" on the Friday thing. I mentioned Saturday as well in a previous post. But the Friday one is the most crazy IMO.
Also, you both are getting overly emotional IMO about the situation, in direct opposite to what I am doing.
As stated, I worked in a position to authorize accommodations, both from an ADA and from a religious standpoint. I only once denied an ADA accommodation and never denied a religious accommodation because I know that it costs a lot and it is better to just to accommodate, which is always an option. I think you just don't understand this and are more willing to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees.
All the places I worked, I'd rather keep that money in our budgets so maybe it can be rolled into a raise or something
No one is getting emotional.
I once worked in a position to authorize accommodations, too.
And there are some jobs where accommodating one person every week to give that person prized time-off while inconveniencing all the other employees simply isn't feasible. That can end up costing a lot, too, when other employees begin to resent the one person who gets the best hours off every week, week-in, week-out. And when someone else really needs those hours, they cannot have them, because the "special" employee always has to have those hours.
I once worked in a position to authorize accommodations, too.
And there are some jobs where accommodating one person every week to give that person prized time-off while inconveniencing all the other employees simply isn't feasible. That can end up costing a lot, too, when other employees begin to resent the one person who gets the best hours off every week, week-in, week-out. And when someone else really needs those hours, they cannot have them, because the "special" employee always has to have those hours.
That is when you weigh the options. If there is a lawsuit and you don't settle, you will be liable for at least $100k in legal fees. Is it better to just give the lady 30 minutes on Fridays and approve a religious accommodation for Saturday? Is it better to approve the 30 minutes on Fridays and then say that the Saturday is conditionally approved (something I would have offered to her). Or is it better to just say no and then have to pay up to $1 million dollars if you lose the law suit or settle with the lady for $100k plus legal fees?
You should always balance the options.
As stated, I only once didn't provide an accommodation. It would have caused a lot of damage to approve that request and open up the flood gates for additional, similar requests so we got our ducks in order and decided to deny it. It took nearly 2 years to settle. I actually was no longer working there when a friend of mine called me and told me that the company won the case. It cost close to $200k in legal fees but we considered that would be the case at the beginning.
I don't think the person who denied her religious request considered this and as stated, I always look at things from a financial liability standpoint. I have never come across a religious accommodation request that was worth a legal fight. If I were at this organization, I would have approved the request for Friday and tried to work out Saturday for her and documented those steps. Employers are required to attempt to accommodate the employee and there is no reason not too IMO and especially considering they may be out of $1 million dollars over this.
ETA: And especially since this is a government organization and that $1 million will come from tax payers. When I did work in government, I ALWAYS kept that in my mind. We should not be wasting the tax payer's money and especially not on something as simple as a religious accommodation.
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