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That, and as someone who is running on a platform that is "anti-Establishment", it seem highly unlikely that he would suddenly respect its institutions. Especially when it is filled with those who have shown no favor to him.
Agencies are supposed to set policy. That is why they exist.
Legislators set laws. That is different from policy.
If legislators disagree with a particular government policy, they are free to write new legislation that further clarifies the role of the agency to set policy.
And that's definitely a matter of debate.
Legislators are obsessed with what is popular in their constituencies. Sometimes they enact laws that are not even possible to implement -- like legislating a byzantine tax code, and then defunding the IRS so severely that it becomes impossible to enforce it properly.
Or when one legislators from one party pass healthcare legislation, and then legislators from an opposing party do everything in its power to ensure that legislation will fail.
Yes, but that's not what is happening. What's happening is that Congress, either out of an inability to actually get anything done, or out of laziness or both, are delegating their responsibilities to these agencies, filled with unelected bureaucrats, and they can write whatever policy / law ( call it whatever you want, it has the same effect ) that they want.
I hate to beat the dead horse that I've been beating all week, but again, look at what the FDA is doing to the vaping industry and the premium cigar and pipe tobacco market. Congress in 2007 gave the FDA the authority to regulate tobacco... Ideally,in order to call something tobacco, it should be made from... tobacco, correct? But the FDA wants to regulate things that aren't tobacco, like pipes and battery operated vaporizers too, but seemingly they can't, because congress only gave them the authority to regulate tobacco. So what does the FDA do to get around this little problem? They just decide to go ahead and classify these vaporizers to be "tobacco".... They now consider a corn cob pipe, made of corn cobs, to be "tobacco" so they can regulate them. They consider the e juice that goes in to vaporizers to be tobacco products, whether the nicotine in them was derived from the tobacco plant or not, or whether they contain any nicotine at all... The most frustrating aspect is, they set all this "policy" without the vote of so much as even one elected representative.
Regardless of how you feel about smoking or vaping, such a blatant power grab by unelected, unaccountable officials should worry EVERYONE.... And don't think for a minute that this kind of over reach doesn't happen in other agencies as well. Our government is bloated and out of control.
Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think that would be impossible at this point. Things are just too entrenched the way they are. The whole system has been thoroughly poisoned from the inside out. We can no longer rely on the courts to do the right thing, for they too, have been poisoned by ideologues.
The only way at this point it would seem, would be to do what our founders did and """throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for our future security"""
Yes, but that's not what is happening. What's happening is that Congress, either out of an inability to actually get anything done, or out of laziness or both, are delegating their responsibilities to these agencies, filled with unelected bureaucrats, and they can write whatever policy / law ( call it whatever you want, it has the same effect ) that they want.
I don't see any clear difference between what I said, and what you just wrote.
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I hate to beat the dead horse that I've been beating all week, but again, look at what the FDA is doing to the vaping industry and the premium cigar and pipe tobacco market. Congress in 2007 gave the FDA the authority to regulate tobacco... Ideally,in order to call something tobacco, it should be made from... tobacco, correct? But the FDA wants to regulate things that aren't tobacco, like pipes and battery operated vaporizers too, but seemingly they can't, because congress only gave them the authority to regulate tobacco. So what does the FDA do to get around this little problem? They just decide to go ahead and classify these vaporizers to be "tobacco".... They now consider a corn cob pipe, made of corn cobs, to be "tobacco" so they can regulate them. They consider the e juice that goes in to vaporizers to be tobacco products, whether the nicotine in them was derived from the tobacco plant or not, or whether they contain any nicotine at all... The most frustrating aspect is, they set all this "policy" without the vote of so much as even one elected representative.
Regardless of how you feel about smoking or vaping, such a blatant power grab by unelected, unaccountable officials should worry EVERYONE.... And don't think for a minute that this kind of over reach doesn't happen in other agencies as well. Our government is bloated and out of control.
No, this has more to do with the judicial branch than the executive.
The FDA took steps to regulate e-cigarettes. The FDA got sued for it.
The judge ruled in favor of the FDA, saying that it can regulate anything "customarily marketed as tobacco," even when it isn't tobacco, or made from tobacco.
Now I think that interpretation is idiotic. But it's the call made by the judicial branch. And the fight probably isn't over yet.
I don't see any clear difference between what I said, and what you just wrote.
No, this has more to do with the judicial branch than the executive.
The FDA took steps to regulate e-cigarettes. The FDA got sued for it.
The judge ruled in favor of the FDA, saying that it can regulate anything "customarily marketed as tobacco," even when it isn't tobacco, or made from tobacco.
Now I think that interpretation is idiotic. But it's the call made by the judicial branch. And the fight probably isn't over yet.
Well a corn cob or briar pipe is not "marketed as tobacco" and by no stretch of the imagination could they be considered tobacco by anyone other than a government bureaucrat looking to stretch their power in to areas where it was never intended to go..... Kudos to you for admitting the idiocy of such a ruling. For that matter, neither is eliquid or the vaporizer it goes in to marketed as tobacco.
No, the fight isn't over yet. Congress has bills sitting in committee that I have little hope will get any attention, and there are more lawsuits in Federal Court as we speak. I have no idea if those have any chance at success, but the mere threat may at least bring the FDA back to the table to talk with industry leaders about rewriting these regs in a way that is workable.
And you say this is a judicial matter. If you'll kindly look at the post that I made after the one you replied to, I said there that we can no longer look to the courts to do the right thing either, for they too have been poisoned by ideologues and partisanship.
Last edited by WhipperSnapper 88; 08-19-2016 at 07:52 PM..
Agencies setting policy. Setting the rules and restriction of liberties.
Congress isn't creating this mess we are in. The alphabet agencies are controlling the people, not the legislation congress enacts, so much.
It takes congress to pass legislation to alter these agencies implemented restrictions on liberties, or take it to the supreme courts, that are appointed by the very Presidents in control of the agencies and the courts....
Corruption to the core.
Is it time to thin the loopholes around congress using federal agencies, over the will of the people, by appointed bureaucrats?
Well a corn cob or briar pipe is not "marketed as tobacco"
That depends on who you ask.
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and by no stretch of the imagination could they be considered tobacco by anyone other than a government bureaucrat looking to stretch their power in to areas where it was never intended to go.....
.. or by a judge who takes a very loose interpretation of the Tobacco Control Act.
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Kudos to you for admitting the idiocy of such a ruling. For that matter, neither is eliquid or the vaporizer it goes in to marketed as tobacco.
Nobody really knows what constitutes "Marketed as tobacco" or not. The judicial branch in this case did not provide sufficient explanation for what that means.
I'll grant that the FDA is attempting to maximize its regulatory power in this case, but they are being enabled by both the judicial and legislative branches. The judicial branch is supposed to keep the executive branch in check, and in this case it supported the executive branch's interpretation of the Tobacco Control Act.
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