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Uh huh, noticed you didn't directly answer the question, did you?
I often love people claiming that it's overstated (note sarcasm). Just another way of saying, I don't give a crap if you have to pay substantially more for health care and can't afford it. Kinda like the advocates of Obamacare. It's OK for others to pay more and have problems putting food on their table. And I've always loved the hyperbole of those that say it's overstated and then claim everyone is one crisis away from financial ruin even if they have health care at substantially less than what they would pay in taxes for Universal Care (uh, yeah...talk about overstated and illogical). It's why people can't have an objective conversation on the matter.
And you didn't answer my question. Why are you so concerned about the costs of universal health care, but not the staggering costs of (manufactured war)? How do you know the tax question isn't overstated? Have you ever lived in another Western country? For that matter, have you ever experienced living anywhere other than where you currently live?
But, I will address the tax question. I grew up in Canada. If people in a country like Canada are so over-taxed compared to Americans, why is that Canada's middle class is now wealthier than the US's middle class? Why is that middle class Canadians enjoy such a high standard of living? As someone who's lived in both countries, I can attest to the differences. I can assure you that there are more Americans who have problems putting food on the table than there are Canadians. I see many people in the "middle class" in the US who struggle just to stay above water, often taking on 2, 3 or more jobs in an attempt to do so. I didn't grow up with that, and no one I know who still lives in Canada has to do that. I find many middle class Americans anxious and angst-ridden, and it stuns me that in a great, wealthy country like the United States, so many decent, hard-working people struggle, or have to worry about one day having to struggle. It doesn't make sense. The very well-off in the US, on the other hand, are doing just fine. If you're cool with that, then okay.
As I said, unless you've lived in a country with universal health care, you don't know WHAT you're talking about. The health care issue is one of the few that would drive me from the US, and, who knows? It might some day. No one knows what the future holds, and that's the point. Universal healthcare (a hybrid system is ideal, IMO) removes that worry. I'll guarantee that you if you were to poll ex-pat Americans who live/have lived in a country with universal health care, you'd be hard pressed to find many of them who celebrate the US's big business-oriented healthcare system.
Now, if you can respond WITHOUT sarcasm or rudeness, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
And you didn't answer my question. Why are you so concerned about the costs of universal health care but not the staggering costs of (manufactured war)? How do you know the tax question isn't overstated? Have you ever lived in another Western country? For that matter, have you ever experienced living anywhere other than where you currently live?
But, I will address the tax question. I grew up in Canada. If people in a country like Canada are so over-taxed compared to Americans, why is that Canada's middle class is now wealthier than the US's middle class? Why is that middle class Canadians enjoy such a high standard of living? As someone who's lived in both countries, I can attest to the differences. I can assure you that there are FAR more Americans who have problems putting food on the table than there are Canadians. I see many people in the "middle class" in the US who struggle just to stay above water, often taking on 2, 3 or more jobs in an attempt to do so. I didn't grow up with that, and no one I know who still lives in Canada has to do that. I find many middle class Americans anxious and angst-ridden, and it stuns me that in a great, wealthy country like the United States, so many decent, hard-working people struggle, or have to worry about one day having to struggle. It doesn't make sense. The very well-off in the US, on the other hand, are doing just fine. If you're cool with that, then okay.
As I said, unless you've lived in a country with universal health care, you don't know WHAT you're talking about. The health care issue is one of the few that would drive me from the US, and, who knows? It might some day. No one knows what the future holds, and that's the point. Universal healthcare (a hybrid system is ideal, IMO) removes that worry. I'll guarantee that you if you were to poll ex-pat Americans who live/have lived in a country with universal health care, you'd be hard pressed to find many of them who celebrate the US's big business-oriented healthcare system.
Now, if you can respond WITHOUT sarcasm or rudeness, I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
Wow...that's a hell of a non-sequitur. I thought the conversation was about health care. Now we're completely off the deep end talking about a war. Stick to the topic please. You apparently think it's OK for people to pay upwards of 20% more in taxes. I don't have to live in another country to know that's BS! Nor does anyone else. Somehow I'm thinking paying 20% more in taxes is not going to make life easier for the Middle Class (I don't need to be a rocket scientist to conclude that either). Somehow I'm thinking many Middle Class families would worry less if they paid less for health care. Seems like a logical conclusion to me.
Plenty of subjective conclusions, but not much in line of facts on your guarantee on how people would feel. I know enough people from the UK that say Universal Health Care is crap (but unlike you, I realize that's subjective....Just depends on who you ask). They're simply broken down by partisan lines just like they are in this country. I'd rather deal with numbers, so let me know when you find some Middle Class families that think it's great to pay substantially more for health care through taxes (and then I'll show you a family that wants to cut off their nose to spite their face).
You clearly don't have much of a defense for the numbers so you have to go off on these tangents and subjective comments that don't prove a thing.
Last edited by bodyforlife99; 08-24-2016 at 07:23 AM..
Wow...that's a hell of a non-sequitur. I thought the conversation was about health care. Now we're completely off the deep end. Stick to the topic please.
You really like that word "non-sequitur," don't you?
I am NOT off-topic. First, as I'm sure you know, the issue of health care can affect us in many ways, and financial concerns are a major one. Second, you suggested that universal health care puts people at an economic disadvantage to the extent that they could have problems paying basic living expenses such as putting food on the table. I addressed that [point, given my experiences.
BTW, Obamacare is NOT universal health care. Not even close. And that's why I don't like it much, either.
Wow...that's a hell of a non-sequitur. I thought the conversation was about health care. Now we're completely off the deep end talking about a war. Stick to the topic please. You apparently think it's OK for people to pay upwards of 20% more in taxes. I don't have to live in another country to know that's BS! Nor does anyone else. Somehow I'm thinking paying 20% more in taxes is not going to make life easier for the Middle Class (I don't need to be a rocket scientist to conclude that either). Somehow I'm thinking many Middle Class families would worry less if they paid less for health care. Seems like a logical conclusion to me.
Plenty of subjective conclusions, but not much in line of facts on your guarantee on how people would feel. I know enough people in the UK that say Universal Health Care is crap (but unlike you, I realize that's subjective....Just depends on who you ask).
And, since I LIVE in the US and have for many years, I know plenty of Americans who complain about the American health care system. Yes, you DO have to live in another place to get the best idea of what it's like to live there. Period.
My parents are from the UK, and, with family still there, I've spent lots of time there. My British relatives all very middle class, and yet most enjoy a good standard of living, taking their two vacations per year in Spain, or Italy, or wherever.
You really like that word "non-sequitur," don't you?
I am NOT off-topic. First, as I'm sure you know, the issue of health care can affect us in many ways, and financial concerns are a major one. Second, you suggested that universal health care puts people at an economic disadvantage to the extent that they could have problems paying basic living expenses such as putting food on the table. I addressed that [point, given my experiences.
BTW, Obamacare is NOT universal health care. Not even close. And that's why I don't like it much, either.
Did I use that word (non sequitur) in our conversation prior to just now? I don't think so
Talking about health care and then going off on a tangent about a war is indeed off topic.
If you don't think people paying upwards of 20% more in taxes doesn't put people at an economic advantage, I don't know what to tell you.
We have roughly 320 million people in the United States. To reflect your experience as a gauge for 320 million people is absurd.
I never said Obamacare was Universal Health Care.
I think we're done now. Let me know when you actually have a valid argument that addresses the financial impact to the Middle Class (especially the multitude of them that are fortunately still in company plans).
Wow...that's a hell of a non-sequitur. I thought the conversation was about health care. Now we're completely off the deep end talking about a war. Stick to the topic please. You apparently think it's OK for people to pay upwards of 20% more in taxes. I don't have to live in another country to know that's BS! Nor does anyone else. Somehow I'm thinking paying 20% more in taxes is not going to make life easier for the Middle Class (I don't need to be a rocket scientist to conclude that either). Somehow I'm thinking many Middle Class families would worry less if they paid less for health care. Seems like a logical conclusion to me.
Plenty of subjective conclusions, but not much in line of facts on your guarantee on how people would feel. I know enough people from the UK that say Universal Health Care is crap (but unlike you, I realize that's subjective....Just depends on who you ask). They're simply broken down by partisan lines just like they are in this country. I'd rather deal with numbers, so let me know when you find some Middle Class families that think it's great to pay substantially more for health care through taxes (and then I'll show you a family that wants to cut of their nose to spite their face).
You clearly don't have much of a defense for the numbers so you have to go off on these tangents and subjective comments that don't prove a thing.
What's it like to have experienced so little, yet think you know so much?
As another poster said above, you will have to look far and wide to find many people in other Western countries who would want to swap their healthcare systems ("high" taxes and all) for the US healthcare system. They are more than willing to pay higher taxes to be able to enjoy the high standard of living they do WITHOUT the worry. And without manufactured war and ITS economic impact.
What's it like to have experienced so little, yet think you know so much?
As another poster said above, you will have to look far and wide to find many people in other Western countries who would want to swap their healthcare systems ("high" taxes and all) for the US healthcare system. They are more than willing to pay higher taxes to be able to enjoy the high standard of living they do WITHOUT the worry.
Yawn. Let me know when you get some facts to support the numbers. We're done. I've had enough of the emotional stuff.
You are incorrect. What I see are a lot of seniors attacking Obamacare while either receiving or counting the days until they receive their own share of the Medicare pie. They scream about the takers but they can't wait to be a taker themselves. They scream about government health care but Medicare is the golden calf they really cannot wait for.
THERE is no legitimate comparison here friend. people pay into medicare like an insurance pool. the ACA for many is simply free and they never worked. Try to get this right before you come back.
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