Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Elephants, Lions and many other species are being hunted to extinction because of the poor management and corruption of the African governments. Should the continent be re-colonized and the animals be protected and managed by American and European agencies? Or do we just let them disappear into oblivion?
It's proven that just giving the present governments money to take care of the animals does not work. The corruption is so bad that very little of the money ever saves a single animal.
Maybe the problem is that Europeans have colonized the resources of Africans, leaving the African people and governments poor and desperate.....which in turn leads them to kill animals for ivory being demanded by people in.....wait for it.....Europe and Asia.
Its like the problem of drug violence in Mexico. Where is the real source of the problem.....Mexico or the Americans who consume all the drugs. Take away the drug market in America and the violence in Mexico dries up. Take away the Market for Ivory in Asia and the West and poachers will dry up.
The people most susceptible to bribery and corruption are those with the fewest other options to get rich or simply make a living.
Maybe the problem is that Europeans have colonized the resources of Africans, leaving the African people and governments poor and desperate.....which in turn leads them to kill animals for ivory being demanded by people in.....wait for it.....Europe and Asia.
Its like the problem of drug violence in Mexico. Where is the real source of the problem.....Mexico or the Americans who consume all the drugs. Take away the drug market in America and the violence in Mexico dries up. Take away the Market for Ivory in Asia and the West and poachers will dry up.
The people most susceptible to bribery and corruption are those with the fewest other options to get rich or simply make a living.
The Colonial Period in Africa concluded long ago (history books or Wikipedia can be of immense help ).
Rather than continuing to scapegoat others, African nations should prioritize the rule of law, good government, education, private property, and rooting out the culture of corruption that infests the place. Eliminating ethnic strife would be nice, but nobody else has figured that out either.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
Yep, a bit of common sense and some defective [deductive] reasoning ... birds falling out of the sky, 32 miles of dead fish wash up on the shorelines, ect ... our turn is on its way.
They don't call them ancient civilizations because they're still around ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
LMAO...indeed.
But hey, Jesus will come back and save us.
That depends on what one thinks that might 'look' like. Personally I believe the earth will end the same way science believes it began, a big bang. Inductive reasoning can be used to conclude if God is the Alpha and the Omega, He may have brought this earth and its solar system in with a big bang, and He can take us out in very much the same way.
However, we're not talking about the end of the earth (that that is born is also subject to death) we're talking about our ecosystem on this planet in conjunction with extinctions of plant and animal life and how extinctions effect (homo sapiens) human lives, globally ...
In that, I brought up ancient civilization (i read the thread; what does religion have to do with the price of beans in China?) and even though I am not an anthropologist or an archeologist, their research is very important in the understanding of how the ecosystem (extinctions of species) as well as civilizations moral and ethical values play a part in civilization extinctions.
Researchers in both of those fields have concluded that the decline in moral/ethical behavior as well as changes in their environment which led to famine were factors that led to the fall of ancient civilizations.
We are the cause our sixth massive extinction of plant and animal life. (not God) Until western civilizations understand the magnitude that is about to impact us all, we can even begin to bring about an understanding to others.
We can not save Africa from Africans any more than any one could have 'saved' any ancient civilizations from their parting of this world. In order for anyone to be saved from becoming extinct they must first learn to respect life and there isn't any civilization ancient or present, that understands how to do that, or the consequences of the failure to do so.
Another concern, the African population explosion. The population of Kenya was somewhere around 8 million souls in the 1950's.
It's up to 48 million or so now. It's projected to be over 100M if things don't change by 2050.
Not much room for animals if that happens. On land that does not come close to supporting that many people.
How do they live? By outside support, which is a terrible thing. The absolute worst thing ever done to Africa is shipping in food and medicine.
This^
We should stop shipping them food, money and medicine. We should literally take all of the technology we gave them away, and let them go back to the stone age. Nature has a way of taking care of itself.
It seems cruel, but giving technology to people that have no understanding or grasp of it is ultimately dangerous.
Maybe the problem is that Europeans have colonized the resources of Africans, leaving the African people and governments poor and desperate.....which in turn leads them to kill animals for ivory being demanded by people in.....wait for it.....Europe and Asia.
Its like the problem of drug violence in Mexico. Where is the real source of the problem.....Mexico or the Americans who consume all the drugs. Take away the drug market in America and the violence in Mexico dries up. Take away the Market for Ivory in Asia and the West and poachers will dry up.
The people most susceptible to bribery and corruption are those with the fewest other options to get rich or simply make a living.
I have no idea how this is relevant to the discussion. These animals are going extinct. The Governments have been given money, training..everything to prevent it but they have corrupted the money away from the intended needs. They are destroying these animals for a few bucks.
Are you saying that Africans just cannot help themselves? They cannot control their desire for western cash?
The Colonial Period in Africa concluded long ago (history books or Wikipedia can be of immense help ).
Rather than continuing to scapegoat others, African nations should prioritize the rule of law, good government, education, private property, and rooting out the culture of corruption that infests the place. Eliminating ethnic strife would be nice, but nobody else has figured that out either.
FYI - The colonial period concluded in Africa less than 60 years ago...
It has not been very "long."
Most people do not know much about the history of the African continent and colonialism in America.
Other than Egypt in the 1920s and S. Africa in the 1930s (but most consider the fall of apartheid to be its "independence") all other African nations are very young countries. Only Ethiopia was never colonized in the entire continent.
The Colonial Period in Africa concluded long ago (history books or Wikipedia can be of immense help ).
Rather than continuing to scapegoat others, African nations should prioritize the rule of law, good government, education, private property, and rooting out the culture of corruption that infests the place. Eliminating ethnic strife would be nice, but nobody else has figured that out either.
The colonization of people and the superimposing of white run government ended long ago....NOT THE RESOURCE COLONIZATION via multinational corporate interest in collusion with the US government/CIA which props up leaders and brings downs others based upon their willingness to serve as proxies for US resource interest on the continent.
You obviously know very little about how the world works.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88
Funny. Up until Islam got going in the early 600s CE, I thought Christianity was proceeding apace in N. Africa - especially the bits around Israel - Ethiopia, Somalia, Egypt, etc., & stretching west from there. I don't remember how far south Christianity penetrated back then - but I always assumed that Christianity was spreading in Africa (the northern part, @ least) before it arrived in Europe.
Now a lot of coastal Africa is still fairly thinly populated - just along the coast & the natural waterways - rivers & lakes. But even so, that's a lot of area & population to cover. I'll have to look up the patterns of penetration of Christianity south into Africa.
I don't recall when the Bible was codified & the contents set. Before Martin Luther, certainly. & he's the person I associate with mass printing of Bibles & prayer books & such - & the beginnings of mass literacy among ordinary church goers.
There's always something to look into.
Quote:
I don't recall when the Bible was codified & the contents set.
I have no idea how this is relevant to the discussion. These animals are going extinct. The Governments have been given money, training..everything to prevent it but they have corrupted the money away from the intended needs. They are destroying these animals for a few bucks.
Are you saying that Africans just cannot help themselves? They cannot control their desire for western cash?
Again, the same thing is happening in N. America and S. America and has happened in Europe.
Why are you focused on Africa.
And FWIW, there are many animal activists in African nations. They, like in America and in Europe have national wildlife refuges. They have people who go out and patrol those refuges which are millions upon millions of acres large. There is no way that anyone can stop poachers 100%. If it weren't for the Africans and their activism on the part of wildlife, many of these animals that you all are concerned about would have already been dead by now.
And you are skirting over the fact that Europeans did indeed cause the low populations in the first place in many African nations. They hunted elephants nearly to death over 50 years ago, when they (Europeans) were the colonizers and so-called "protectors" of these lands. They are the ones to blame. There was no issue with wildlife being eradicated so quickly until Europeans took up big game hunting in the 19th century through the 20th century. That is what caused all the issues in Africa we see today with large game especially. Elephants have few babies in their lifetimes and so their populations have never recovered from being hunted to near extinction in the 20th century by white, Europeans hunters. Same can be said of other animals in Asia as well (tigers come to mind, who are heavily endangered in Asia as are Asian elephants).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
