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Lying gets you fired quicker than anything else I can think of as a policeman
And yet time after time we see it doesn't.
Quote:
You can commit a lot of actions as a policeman that violate some policy of the department manual... If you tell the truth... You take your lumps but probably won't be fired ( unless what you do is a crime)
If you lie you will get fired..police hate liars...because that's what most people do all the time in their dealings with police.
This is taught from day one and reinforced regularly.
That's reality regardless of false narratives or sensational events.
I would relish "doing" a lying policeman...because they are crooked but only after it could be definitively proven they lied and knew it...
I saw that and it made me wonder...why aren't compaints filed with the Civilian Review Board first...and then the civilian review board can file it with the Police department? That would make sure it doesn't get 'lost' or that the person filing the complaint isn't given the runaround
It was probably never intended to address the problems, only make it look like they were addressed.
IMO they should also be required to put up the cost of the average such investigation, up front, into an escrow account that neither side is allowed to access.
If cop is found guilty, they get it back If not, escrow is seized towards paying actual cost of their investigation, plus the fine.
Which is a pretty extreme violation of the 5th amendment. Remember that police officers are employed by a government bound by the 5th and 14th amendments, unlike private employers.
One condition though-IF complaints are investigated and the complaints are found to be false, the initiator of the complaint is charged with slander, made to pay a fine payable to the officer in question and made to pay the cost of the investigation. I suspect (and would like to see stats either way) that the vast majority of the complaints are bogus.
The problem with that is a complaint is no more a police report or an accusation of crime then complaining your fries were cold at McDonalds. That person who complains has a first amendment right to lodge that complaint, even it is 100% completely fabricated. That means that a fine is completely out of the question, as well as charging the complainant the cost of the investigation.
The officer already has the option to pursue a slander case against someone who lodged the complaint, but privilege attaches to the complaint itself (which basically means the actual complaint cannot be entered into evidence to prove slander, making the case difficult). On top of that, since the police officer is consider a public official in many states (public official normally means a high level government employee, so it varies from state to state), you have to prove the complaint was knowingly false ("actual malice") and negligence (e.g. they did not have a reasonable standard of verify the truth of their statement, normally a foregone conclusion if they already meet the actual malice standard).
Officers do routinely win such slander cases still, but normally will never see a cent from the complainant. A lot of these complaints are filed by people with no traceable property and assets to lose. (Or you can find someone to file the complaint as a "witness" to the incident who has no traceable property and assets.)
Since 3rd party and anonymous complaints are always allowed, there is a huge percentage of bogus complaints (probably in the 90%+ range just going by cases appealed to strong citizen review boards in cities like Berkeley).
I saw that and it made me wonder...why aren't compaints filed with the Civilian Review Board first...and then the civilian review board can file it with the Police department? That would make sure it doesn't get 'lost' or that the person filing the complaint isn't given the runaround
Well not all departments have a civilian review board and another problem is that the civilian review board may not have the record of the police officer, in around half of the states the disciplinary record is confidential and internal to the PD.
The NYC civilian review board can recommend discipline to the PD, acceptance is up to them.
Think should make 2 levels of law enforcement in the US. One privitized local municipalities that protect businesses and property. 2nd level State level protects life and deals with criminal activity.
I've mentioned something similar in the past. I generally say that we need to quit making the police to be tax collectors and that could work as you state it
No one has any opinion on the last two stories I posted?
Based on my past experience actually assisting in investigations of cases like the pepper spray one, nearly 100% chance the officer who sprayed her is sanctioned. Unless he has prior sustained use of force complaints, he cannot lose his job for that unless he is probationary. If he is probationary, he is going to be fired. Sanction does not sound like much, until you realize that for a typical officer that will cost them several hundred thousand dollars in lifetime earnings and $10k-$30k off their pension.
Being convicted of charges will not happen. A normal citizen would be unlikely to be in that situation, but would not be convicted even if they were. (They might be indicted, but not convicted.)
The three Connecticut troopers are likely in some sort of non-employee status (resigned, fired, or suspended without pay which is always a precursor to firing). The state is legally required to confirm the employment of current employees except for a few exceptions that do not apply to these three (e.g. undercover officers), and they refused to confirm their employment status.
Looking at sunshine law compensation records, it looks like Barone did not finish FY2016 (he was also demoted to the lowest rank before his employment ended). I was 3rd degree connected to Jacobi on LinkedIn, and that indicates he resigned. Sunshine law compensation records show he did not finish FY2016 either. No idea on Torneo. He did finish FY2016 with his full salary and rank. (Considering Torneo was the ranking officer and his role, I suspect that he refused to resign and is fighting sanction, hence the "ongoing investigation". Based on my past experiences, when a ranking officer decides to fight a termination, it takes around 3 years to resolve. You have to prove a pattern of misconduct, not just a single incident, to fire a public employee, and ranking officers often have a strong employment record to fight the claim of a pattern. After all, why were they promoted if they were poor officers?)
good. i think we need civilian oversight boards in every city. i think we also need more extensive background checks in every city for law enforcement.
I think we kinda need better citizens who don't instill abject fear in the police. Does anyone wonder why the police can be trigger happy when day in and day out they are faced with a barrage of senseless violence and mayhem? Drug wars, gang bangers, criminal assault, rape, property crime, and all the rest of it. Wouldn't you feel a little defensive if this is all you saw every day for years, especially in the inner city? Frequent and pervasive crime for decades without end? Perhaps we need term limits for cops. Maybe a person can only take so much chaos before it starts to get to them.
And perhaps we need to take a look at the entitlement mentality that created and maintains all this chaos.
But no, we'll pay attention to fake fraud athletes who kneel down and other useless philosophically vapid wannabes who need to "make statements" about symptoms rather than analyzing the real problem.
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