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Old 09-23-2016, 12:00 AM
 
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
22,902 posts, read 12,054,642 times
Reputation: 10171

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
Lying gets you fired quicker than anything else I can think of as a policeman

You can commit a lot of actions as a policeman that violate some policy of the department manual... If you tell the truth... You take your lumps but probably won't be fired ( unless what you do is a crime)

If you lie you will get fired..police hate liars...because that's what most people do all the time in their dealings with police.


This is taught from day one and reinforced regularly.

That's reality regardless of false narratives or sensational events.

I would relish "doing" a lying policeman...because they are crooked but only after it could be definitively proven they lied and knew it...

Walk a mile.....
Garmback and Loehmann lied their butts off when giving their reports after the Rice incident, which was before they knew they were being taped. After they learned that it was taped they changed their stories in an attempt to match what the tape had shown.

 
Old 09-23-2016, 02:23 AM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,902,731 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
No, you don't. You have no rights when you are a thug on the streets brandishing an illegal firearm and are told by a peace officer to drop it
Brandishing an illegal firearm isn't a Constitutional right is it? So many do this and I have no idea why.

Quote:
Stop playing phony games with arguments about rights. You know damned well that thugs on the streets brandishing handguns are not worried about anyone's rights, including their own. They are worried about violating rights, not protecting them. The state is given a monopoly on the initiation of violent force. That's how civilization works and that is how it differs from the law of the jungle. If you are brandishing a firearm and are told to drop it, you have the right to die if you continue to disobey. That is moral, correct, and the only rational way to run a civilized country. Now if your goal is something else...
We were discussing ones rights in general. You know that.
 
Old 09-23-2016, 02:24 AM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,902,731 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee View Post
Garmback and Loehmann lied their butts off when giving their reports after the Rice incident, which was before they knew they were being taped. After they learned that it was taped they changed their stories in an attempt to match what the tape had shown.
I've already asked about this and got no reply.
 
Old 09-24-2016, 09:27 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,739,160 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Brandishing an illegal firearm isn't a Constitutional right is it? So many do this and I have no idea why.
Brandishing does fit into a very fuzzy area of constitutional law, since it is a protected speech under the first amendment. In particular, brandishing laws require inferring the purpose of the speech (to threaten and induce fear) rather than just the content. Quite a few states have had to modify their brandishing laws in recent years to accommodate open carry protests.
Of course, brandishing an illegal weapon, regardless of the constitutional protections of brandishing, is just stupid. That gets you arrested for possessing the illegal weapon rather than needing to arrest for the brandishing itself. (But now you compound the constitutional question with the idea that certain weapons are illegal or illegal for certain people.)
 
Old 09-24-2016, 09:38 AM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,902,731 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
Brandishing does fit into a very fuzzy area of constitutional law, since it is a protected speech under the first amendment. In particular, brandishing laws require inferring the purpose of the speech (to threaten and induce fear) rather than just the content. Quite a few states have had to modify their brandishing laws in recent years to accommodate open carry protests.
Of course, brandishing an illegal weapon, regardless of the constitutional protections of brandishing, is just stupid. That gets you arrested for possessing the illegal weapon rather than needing to arrest for the brandishing itself. (But now you compound the constitutional question with the idea that certain weapons are illegal or illegal for certain people.)
There is no compounding of anything. The Constitution is clear that your rights can be removed through due process.
 
Old 09-24-2016, 10:09 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,739,160 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
There is no compounding of anything. The Constitution is clear that your rights can be removed through due process.
Yes, and due process is the judging of whether or not deprivation is mistaken or unjust. That's why the felony law and age limits are the few firearm possession restrictions that tend to stand up. I was thinking more laws like the STEP act in California, where you can be charged with a misdemeanor and stripped of firearm possession rights because of your associations and no other crime (some of the criteria for affiliation are having a gang tattoo, being seen with members of a gang, and being on "friendly terms" with members of the gang).
If you were open carrying a firearm and gang affiliated (different from gang membership), you could be arrested for illegal possession that would otherwise be legal. It is an extensive process to prove gang affiliation (more than I outlined above, though those are all factors), but just because a process is extensive does not make conform to due process.
 
Old 09-24-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,161,240 times
Reputation: 19952
The situation with the way cops are acting in this country is getting out of control. They do not need to take the actions they do or to be as aggressive as they are. They appear to need retraining in how to deal with human beings who are not hardened criminals and also seem very dense when it comes to using judgment.

An incident with a 15-year-old in Maryland recently was rather shocking to watch. She was struggling, but unarmed and the police were aggressive from the get-go. After they handcuffed her, pepper sprayed her and shoved her into the police, with door closed, the cop sprays her in the face again. It is hard to watch as she is inside the car handcuffed--it was simply sadistic and unnecessary. If a group of big cops cannot deal with this situation without pepper spray, there is something wrong.

Chief: Officers Justified in Pepper-Spraying Maryland Girl - ABC News


 
Old 09-24-2016, 11:46 AM
 
Location: 20 years from now
6,453 posts, read 6,980,710 times
Reputation: 4658
the only way to nip this in the bud is for certain communities not to commit a disproportionate amount of crime. That goes for ANY race.
 
Old 09-24-2016, 11:49 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,979,055 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
The situation with the way cops are acting in this country is getting out of control. They do not need to take the actions they do or to be as aggressive as they are. They appear to need retraining in how to deal with human beings who are not hardened criminals and also seem very dense when it comes to using judgment.

An incident with a 15-year-old in Maryland recently was rather shocking to watch. She was struggling, but unarmed and the police were aggressive from the get-go. After they handcuffed her, pepper sprayed her and shoved her into the police, with door closed, the cop sprays her in the face again. It is hard to watch as she is inside the car handcuffed--it was simply sadistic and unnecessary. If a group of big cops cannot deal with this situation without pepper spray, there is something wrong.

Chief: Officers Justified in Pepper-Spraying Maryland Girl - ABC News


No, she was screaming, resisting, fussing, kicking, and otherwise behaving violently. I don't care if she is a girl, or if she was 15. If she is not bright enough to yield to police officers when ordered to calm down and shut up, then she deserves the pepper spray to stop her before she becomes worse and starts biting or God knows what.


If she had shut up and behaved quietly and with civility, the police would not have been forced to engage in aggressive restraint.


In other words, she made the situation herself and the repercussions and consequences were her own doing and her own responsibility.


You don't fight cops, you don't talk back to cops, you don't resist cops. You can deal with the situation and argue later in court before a Judge, but while you are on the street, you shut up, stop moving, remain calm, and DO WHAT THEY SAY.


If not, you invite and deserve being subject to aggressive restraint, including pepper spray and whatever else it takes to shut you down.


That's the way it works, and that is correct, proper, and expected. Parents need to bring their kids up better to yield to authority when on the streets.
 
Old 09-24-2016, 12:08 PM
 
79,902 posts, read 43,902,731 times
Reputation: 17184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
No, she was screaming, resisting, fussing, kicking, and otherwise behaving violently. I don't care if she is a girl, or if she was 15. If she is not bright enough to yield to police officers when ordered to calm down and shut up, then she deserves the pepper spray to stop her before she becomes worse and starts biting or God knows what.
She had just been knocked unconscience. As someone who is dealing with someone like that is it at least possible that had a influence on her actions? As someone who responds to something like this, is this how we should expect them to treat someone with the very real possibility of a head injury? Pepper spraying them when they are no harm to anyone?


Quote:
If she had shut up and behaved quietly and with civility, the police would not have been forced to engage in aggressive restraint.
They were not forced to do anything. My daughter is a good kid. She would absolutely freak if anyone tried to take her anywhere without her mom. Two years ago her and her mom was crossing in a crosswalk. Someone not paying any attention turned right into them. My wife was walking the dog and the car caught the leash and broke my wife's wrist. My daughter was knocked down. The ambulance arrives and they place my daughter in the ambulance while attending to my wife. My daughter wasn't going anywhere without her mom. Luckily they both were permitted to ride in the same ambulance (sadly they charged for two ambulances anyway).


Quote:
In other words, she made the situation herself and the repercussions and consequences were her own doing and her own responsibility.
We should expect the same response out of a 15 year old as we do a police officer?

Quote:
You don't fight cops, you don't talk back to cops, you don't resist cops. You can deal with the situation and argue later in court before a Judge, but while you are on the street, you shut up, stop moving, remain calm, and DO WHAT THEY SAY.
If the requests are lawful and you haven't just been through a very stressful situation.


Quote:
If not, you invite and deserve being subject to aggressive restraint, including pepper spray and whatever else it takes to shut you down.


That's the way it works, and that is correct, proper, and expected. Parents need to bring their kids up better to yield to authority when on the streets.
The city will be paying this family a huge settlement. You also have NO idea what this girls parents are like. Good parents still have kids do dumb things. Don't let that stop you from jumping to conclusions though.
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