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Old 11-08-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,424,748 times
Reputation: 11335

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Arizona would revert to a territory if no longer a state. It can't possibly have a right to secede. It was never anything before. Perhaps we should sell it back to Mexico.
The 10th Amendment makes no distinction between the original states and other states.
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,424,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
you mean you would BUY them.
No. Besides, the feds need to have permission to own any property in a state. They added it, in the Western states, to the statehood acts and so when people voted for statehood they voted to give permission. Of course at the time the feds had a policy of giving the lands away so it wasn't an issue at the time to most. There's nothing that says a state can't rescind that permission, other than the feds roadblocking it. Secession would eliminate that road block.
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,337 posts, read 26,424,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
Perhaps. What I know is that there is no such backlash in Nevada, and we all have guns here. I don't know what triggers this reaction in Montana. Myself, I've had the same gun since '78, and no one has come to take it from me. That's six administrations, and today's fears are no different than what I've heard for 30 years.
Where in NV are you, Las Vegas? I wouldn't expect it there. But people I've chatted with from rural parts of NV have a much different opinion...
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Old 11-08-2009, 02:36 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,510,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Where in NV are you, Las Vegas? I wouldn't expect it there. But people I've chatted with from rural parts of NV have a much different opinion...
I don't like Vegas. I live up north. You're right about the rural areas. When I moved here, northern Nevada wasn't much past rural itself. We've grown rapidly, but the culture still remains. That's what I was referring to, not literally everyone.
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,085 posts, read 15,110,281 times
Reputation: 3732
Default 10th Amendment, revisited

So what does the 10th Amendment mean, then? Let's hear it from the framers of our Constitution and Bill of Rights:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The Virginia Resolution of 1798, written by James Madison (the main author of the Constitution and the author of the Bill of Rights, including the 10th Amendment) says:
That this Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the federal government, as resulting from the compact, to which the states are parties; as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact; as no further valid that they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the states who are parties thereto, have the right, and are in duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them.
Plus, the Kentucky Resolution of 1798 written by Thomas Jefferson says this:

"Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes -- delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral part, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress."
.
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Old 11-08-2009, 03:28 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,510,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
So what does the 10th Amendment mean, then? Let's hear it from the framers of our Constitution and Bill of Rights:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The Virginia Resolution of 1798, written by James Madison (the main author of the Constitution and the author of the Bill of Rights, including the 10th Amendment) says:
That this Assembly doth explicitly and peremptorily declare, that it views the powers of the federal government, as resulting from the compact, to which the states are parties; as limited by the plain sense and intention of the instrument constituting the compact; as no further valid that they are authorized by the grants enumerated in that compact; and that in case of a deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers, not granted by the said compact, the states who are parties thereto, have the right, and are in duty bound, to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil, and for maintaining within their respective limits, the authorities, rights and liberties appertaining to them.
Plus, the Kentucky Resolution of 1798 written by Thomas Jefferson says this:

"Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes -- delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral part, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress."
.
Okay, but how is this related to the 2nd Amendment?
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,085 posts, read 15,110,281 times
Reputation: 3732
Because like a lot of other Federal infringements on states' rights, it uses coercion against the states' other interests for enforcement, and restricts intrastate commerce (which the feds have no Constitutional right to do).

It's a mistake to think of the Bill of Rights as unrelated clauses; they all support one another. Much as the 2nd Amendment supports the 1st Amendment, by giving you a means to defend your freedom of speech, the 10th Amendment supports the 2nd Amendment by saying "if our citizens want to sell each other guns, it is none of your damned Federal business."
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
9,367 posts, read 25,170,184 times
Reputation: 9454
All talk, no action. Secede or get with the program. This is an old thread. Yawn.... the blustering is getting old.
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,085 posts, read 15,110,281 times
Reputation: 3732
An interesting site regarding citizenry and the individual states, relevant to the 10th Amendment per above -- the site owner's motivation is different, but the principles are worth examining:

State Citizen
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Old 11-08-2009, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Eastern NC
20,868 posts, read 23,476,322 times
Reputation: 18813
I think they should leave then take away all the federal funding Montana gets as well as the military and you will see taxes go sky high to pay for things the federal government pays for. i doubt that anyone in montana who wants this has really looked at the big picture.
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