Montana talks of leaving the Union over gun rights ! (Illinois, North Dakota, Colorado)

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by harborlady

Women are socialized to be victimized. I strongly disagree with that element of our culture, and admire males who are strong enough in their own identity to recognize that weak kneed pollyanna's who roll over for them aren't the epitome of femininity. I'm not willing to go along with being a predator, but I'm also not willing to be preyed upon. Thorny consequences for fools is natures way.

You can be my neighbor in MT anytime !

[harborlady]

<curtsey> from WV.

[ergohead]

Speculative scenario.


Secession – One Year Later by William Buppert

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

This is the silly nonsense that permeates this site. "Write your congressman and he won't tell you no" His office doesn't answer you because you're a nutcase.

The Social Security Act makes enrollment in the system mandatory for virtually all wage earners.

Sorry to disagree, but if anyone else writes, who is not a "nutcase" and also does not receive a reply, does that make them nutcases for asking for PROOF?

Or are you just defending "the system" with arrogant ignorance?

Have you read the Federal Insurance Contribution Act of 1935 (Aka Social Security Act)?

Please state the section that makes it MANDATORY for all Americans in the United States of America to enroll.

We await your answer.
And will it be [silence] just like the public servants, who cannot answer?

[jetgraphics]

Pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, involuntary servitude (except after conviction) is unconstitutional. Therefore any obligatory duties imposed by participation in Social Security MUST be predicated on a voluntary act - enrollment.
That is why there is no compulsion to enroll into Social Security. For if there was, it would be involuntary servitude, and unconstitutional.
It is 100% voluntary servitude.
At last count, each recipient of entitlements under national socialism is supported by 2.5 workers. When that drops to 2 workers per recipient (and the hordes of bureaucrats), each "socialist" will be spending half his working life for the benefit of another.

Methinks that half-slavery is still slavery.
But remember, you can't object because YOU VOLUNTEERED!

[rlchurch]

Originally Posted by jetgraphics

Sorry to disagree, but if anyone else writes, who is not a "nutcase" and also does not receive a reply, does that make them nutcases for asking for PROOF?

Or are you just defending "the system" with arrogant ignorance?

Have you read the Federal Insurance Contribution Act of 1935 (Aka Social Security Act)?

Please state the section that makes it MANDATORY for all Americans in the United States of America to enroll.

We await your answer.
And will it be [silence] just like the public servants, who cannot answer?

One more time for the reading challenged. It's mandatory for American citizens to obtain a SSN in order to work for wages except for a few minor exceptions. There is an Internet urban legend that the trolls on here repeat ad nauseum that SS is a "voluntary system." It's only voluntary if you volunteer not to work.

Here's what SS says about the issue,

Persons working in employment covered by Social Security are subject to the FICA payroll tax. Like all taxes, this has never been voluntary. From the first days of the program to the present, anyone working on a job covered by Social Security has been obligated to pay their payroll taxes.
In the early years of the program, however, only about half the jobs in the economy were covered by Social Security. Thus one could work in non-covered employment and not have to pay FICA taxes (and of course, one would not be eligible to collect a future Social Security benefit). In that indirect sense, participation in Social Security was voluntary. However, if a job was covered, or became covered by subsequent law, then if a person worked at that job, participation in Social Security was mandatory.


There have only been a handful of exceptions to this rule, generally involving persons working for state/local governments. Under certain conditions, employees of state/local governments have been able to voluntarily choose to have their employment covered or not covered.

[ergohead]

Bowen versus Public Agencies Opposed to Social Security Entrapment (POSSE)

This decision created very bad law.

JetGraphics is correct, though.

Bowen v. Agencies Opposed To Soc. Sec. Entrap. - Oral Argument | The Oyez Project

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=printfriendly&id=7007 (broken link)

This decision created a monster called, The Unmistakability Doctrine.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

One more time for the reading challenged. It's mandatory for American citizens to obtain a SSN in order to work for wages except for a few minor exceptions. There is an Internet urban legend that the trolls on here repeat ad nauseum that SS is a "voluntary system." It's only voluntary if you volunteer not to work.

Here's what SS says about the issue,

Persons working in employment covered by Social Security are subject to the FICA payroll tax. Like all taxes, this has never been voluntary.

"Employment" as defined, requires an agreement (consent), by enrollment (voluntary) into the "entitlement program" administered under FICA. There is no law compelling enrollment. (You should know that the term "United States" refers back to the government, not the "United States of America". And it IS a revenue taxable privilege to work for the bankrupt U.S. government.)

Pursuant to Form SS-5, application for account and number, only "U.S. citizens" and "U.S. residents" are eligible to enroll.

American nationals, domiciled in the U.S.A. are not eligible to enroll. Nor would they wish to.

Remember, involuntary servitude is unconstitutional. And duties imposed on citizens would be involuntary servitude if citizenship was imposed.

"All taxes are not voluntary..." is a clever lie.

What is omitted, is the fact that any right that is SECURED by government, cannot be TAXED by government, lest that right be infringed.

Going back to the Declaration of Independence, governments are instituted among men to (a) secure rights and (b) govern those who CONSENT.

Careful examination of all taxing statutes will show that only revenue taxable PRIVILEGES granted by government are subject to taxation by government. NO RIGHT (ex: inalienable rights to life, liberty or private property) is subject to taxation.

However, one can certainly surrender their inalienable rights to life, liberty and private property, and volunteer to be a subject.

Case in point: conscription. The definition of the militia, in Title 50 USC Sec. 453 Registration (Selective Service) and Title 10 USC Sec. 311, only apply to male CITIZENS.

Citizens, by definition, are subjects. Emphasis on SUBJECTS of government.

Are all Americans SUBJECTS of government?

Not according to the law and court rulings.

"People are supreme, not the state."
Waring v. the Mayor of Savannah, 60 GA at 93.

"The people of the state, as the successors of its former sovereign, are
entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the king by his own
prerogative."
Lansing v. Smith, (1829) 4 Wendell 9, (NY)

"At the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people and they are truly the sovereigns of the country."
Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 440, 463

People who are sovereigns are not subjects.

Ask yourself : if you had a choice, would you choose to be a sovereign or a subject?

And ask yourself : if you were denied that choice, and misled to assume you were born a subject, would you defend your servitude or seek to restore your lost sovereign status at law?

------
REPUBLICAN (form of) GOVERNMENT. One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people,... directly,.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary

SOVEREIGNTY - ...By "Sovereignty", in its largest sense is meant supreme, absolute, uncontrollable power, the absolute right to govern.
Black's Law Dictionary Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1396.

SOVEREIGN - A person, body or state in which independent and supreme authority is vested...
Black's Law Dictionary Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1395.

We were once kings without subjects, equal in status to any other monarch on earth. Under international law, sovereign Americans need not bow nor kneel to any other monarch. How far we have fallen!

[rlchurch]

You employed Jet? Then you are in SS. It's that simple.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by rlchurch

You employed Jet? Then you are in SS. It's that simple.

Unless you work as a congressman or senator, then for some reason you don't have to pay in...