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2. those countries have a much small enrollment percentage
US college enrollment 94%
Germany enrollment 62%
And 85% of Swedish students graduate with debt, versus only 50% in the US. Worst of all, new Swedish graduates have the highest debt-to-income ratios of any group of students in the developed world (according to estimates of what they're expected to earn once they get out of school)--somewhere in the neighborhood of 80%. The US, where we're constantly being told that student debt is hitting crisis proportions, the average is more like 60%.
More nonsense from you. All public colleges are tuition free in dozens of countries including all the northern European ones. Debt? That has nothing to do with tuition. Of course all students get loans and grants to cover housing, food and various other expenses. This type of debt is very manageable because they are not extortionate like the US system of 10% interest rates and 5 year pay back time or else...
So I have read most of this thread and its interesting that we see this comparison between America and Germany...
However, this discussion is based on a big pile of ignorance.
Trying to look at the American system and wondering why Germany can put people thru college free, but we cant without even a basic understanding of the German system is... well... it fails on oh so many levels.
For instance....
as a general rule
1. The decision on whether or not a child will be allowed to go to college is made when the child is in 5th and 6th grade. That would be between the ages of 11 and 13. You read that correctly, teachers and parents make the decision for the child between the ages of 11 and 13.
2. MOST Children matriculate thru a system that leads to an apprenticeship and a job in a related field... this likely precludes the child from ever reaching upper mgmt. level.
3. for those who seek to enter college having not moved thru the process set for them, they must pass a series of tests intended to make sure they have the knowledgebase to keep up, the intelligence (read IQ) to manage the rigors of the college system.
4. Culturally in Germany you are what you are. In America you are what you work to become.
5. Basically College in Germany is a scholarship program where only the best and brightest... (read those most compliant within the system) even have a chance to enter.
These systems are vastly different. Not in that one is paid for by the population while the other isn't. Rather, they are build from the bottom up in very different ways.
In the German system, those taxes that pay for college are paid for by people who don't have access to the institution.
NOW TRANSLATE THAT TO THE AMERICAN SYSTEM.
The devil is in the details.
To reasonably compare/ contrast education systems / performance between countries requires getting into the weeds.
You are correct that at about age 10 children/ family choose an academic vs non academic path. Germany has a very divided educational system. Those put on a vocational path do necessarily learn trades. Many focus on hospitality, restaurant and retail.
China has dominated the PISA rests all along. Most do not focus on who is being tested versus not. China excludes a majority of its population from completing the equivelent of an elementary school education , thus testing. Maybe, the US should just report scores in Mass. Instead of the entire country.
The Nordic countries put students on academic or vocational paths at age 13- 15. Like Germany, not everyone learns a trade. Only those on an academic track are eligible for testing. Many are trained to work in retail, restaurants, hotels, elderly and childcare providers.
And she even gets money from defense contractor Lockheed Martin.
Wow, Mike you appear to be a sellout voting for corporate shills.
You are clueless. She doesnt get money from these corporations. People who WORK for these companies donate a few bucks to her campaign. If you think Jill Stein is supported by the big money elites you are clearly drunk.
To reasonably compare/ contrast education systems / performance between countries requires getting into the weeds.
You are correct that at about age 10 children/ family choose an academic vs non academic path. Germany has a very divided educational system. Those put on a vocational path do necessarily learn trades. Many focus on hospitality, restaurant and retail.
China has dominated the PISA rests all along. Most do not focus on who is being tested versus not. China excludes a majority of its population from completing the equivelent of an elementary school education , thus testing. Maybe, the US should just report scores in Mass. Instead of the entire country.
The Nordic countries put students on academic or vocational paths at age 13- 15. Like Germany, not everyone learns a trade. Only those on an academic track are eligible for testing. Many are trained to work in retail, restaurants, hotels, elderly and childcare providers.
This is simply not true. Where do you get all this misinformation from? Testing has been done in dirt poor rural provinces of China. They perform far better than the top 10% in the UK. The majority dont complete elemetary school? Simply not true, more lies.
Nordic countries DO NOT put students on academic or vocational paths at age 13 or 15. This only applies to high school at age 16 and if people want to go the academic route instead after finishing the vocational route they can take the few courses needed and go on to university instead.
The fact that you compare Sanders, a highly respected man with a 40 year track record of fighting for the 99%, with Trump, a billionaire muppet with zero knowledge about how politics work says it all.
I think people thought things through very well when people voted for Sanders who had zero links to bribe money and was free to work for the common good of the 99%. Its absolutely true as you say that huge parts of Congress are puppets of the rich, but that doesnt make it wrong to vote for a straight shooter with integrity who will fight for the 99%.
My point was and remains all candidates and nominees express many intentions that will never see the light of day. And they know it and do it for votes.
Sanders had no chance of advancing his agenda had he been nominated and then won the election.
Nonsense. The total cost of the Iraq war will be well in excess of $3 trillion (costs are ongoing). Tuition free public college will cost $70 billion per year. A drop in the bucket compared to the massive outlays YOU pay to the donor class you support. Wars, bailouts, no-bid government contracts, corporate welfare, the list is endless.
oh please 70 billion......maybe for 2 months
average cost for a 4 year degree at a public college.......15,000 per year (2 semesters)
average amount of college students at public colleges annually:.... 20.5 million students, going up annually
even if you dropped the '''cost''' down to 6k (a cheap room and board aka 600/month x 10 months room and board))
6k x 20.5 million is 123,500,000,000
that's 123 billion annually
and the total cost of the Iraq war was 900 billion
More baloney from you. Just google online what the cost of tuition free public college is. Its $70 billion. Why do you bring room and board into the discussion!!??! We are talking about tuition, and tuition only.
even if you dropped the '''cost''' down to 6k (a cheap room and board aka 600/month x 10 months room and board))
6k x 20.5 million is 123,500,000,000
that's 123 billion annually
and the total cost of the Iraq war was 900 billion
Local university, FIU, is about $25000 tuition for four years total for Florida residents. about $6000 per year. A bargain.A working student can make that much in a service sector staying at home. They are more expensive than either FSU or UF although these two tend to have students staying in dorms which increases overall costs.
This is absurd. By this logic, we should privatize K-12 as well and just make a tiny elite educated and just let 50% of the workforce not even attend elementary school. That would ensure that we dont degrade education. A tiny super rich and well educated elite at the top and a large pool of uneducated and desperate people at t he bottom. Latin America is a place where this is the ideal.
That was the US too, not all that long ago.
For the most part, only the wealthy attended college. Most were lucky to finish 8th grade.
The GI bill changed all that for those returning veterans who chose to pursue and stick with it.
The first student loans began in the 50's. These loans were direct loans from the federal government for those pursuing certain degrees with an emphasis on math and science.
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