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You said you were in the military - you should be aware of the differences - so, was it a squad, platoon or company TD?
I was drafted so I do not really care about insignificant details like how big a company or unit is. My education allowed me to be an officer but that meant serving more time so I kindly declined. I was (and still am) only concerned about details that directly affect me personally.
Originally Posted by 66nexus
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The military is a unit. It isn't about 'blindly' following orders, it's about being a cohesive fighting force. You can follow orders and still have a head on your shoulders. A leader that tells you to simply 'execute this prisoner' can be challenged.
Except in wartime. You could be executed on the spot when you refuse to follow a direct order since you challenge the chain of command. And in wartime there is nothing more lethal for a military unit when someone challenges the chain of command.
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You said you would never fire unless fired upon...have you ever been in that situation? Because if not, there's a bunch of people out there that would say what they 'would' do 'if' _______.
I am not concerned about what other people do. If someone else makes a mistakes that is no reason for me to repeat it.
And no I've (luckily) never been fired upon.
Another thing is that it took the army a very long time to acknowledge that there is such a thing as combat-stress, or that war is brutal for the human psyche. Many veterans did not get the psychological help they needed because it would be bad for the army to acknowledge that soldiers who have been in the field could become mentally damaged.
When you have a physical wound you will be treated immediately, but when you suffer from a psychological wound (which often are invisible to the naked eye) you might run the risk to never get the help that you require.
I would never ever encourage my kids to join the military. My husband was there, and it was the hardest time for him and for me.....My husband went there right after High school... and his parents encouraged him!
I have seen many of his friends who were of the same rank...and they were unhappy and none of them reenlisted. I have seen his bosses, and they did not look that bad at all, they liked their jobs. I think that military life is not as bad if you have a higher rank. The only way I would ever let my kids to join it.... would be after they get their Master's degree....and if they would still want it, i would agree...maybe even encourage.
I think that it's normal when people join the military if they really want it. But it's not good for everyone, it depends on a person.
There are word like DUTY,HONOR, LOYOTY,COUNTRY,TRADITION just to name a few. My family has 3 generations in the VFW, This country has to have a Military and someone has to do it, so many others can set at thier computers and whine and cry about the Goverment. I pray that when my son or daugter are old enough they can avoid the trials of combat service but if thats their choice. I'll pray for their protection against enemys foriegn and domestic.......
There are word like DUTY,HONOR, LOYOTY,COUNTRY,TRADITION just to name a few. My family has 3 generations in the VFW, This country has to have a Military and someone has to do it, so many others can set at thier computers and whine and cry about the Goverment. I pray that when my son or daugter are old enough they can avoid the trials of combat service but if thats their choice. I'll pray for their protection against enemys foriegn and domestic.......
I agree,respect and understand that.I respect those that join give up many rights that a civilian has.I admire the comradeship that those in the military form toward each other.
But understand that even a civilian puke like me has the thought of duty,honor loyality country and tradition and that weighs into how I criticzize politicians on how they use the military.
Because while you in uniform are ready to die and protect the Constitution (so am I) I as a civilian has the responsibility to make sure you are sent into harms way for those purposes and not a purpose that betrays or endangers the country and its tradition,honor and loyality of the Constitution.
So if I think the reasons to go to war or become involved in certain world matters may come back to haunt the country and dismantle the Constitution it's my duty,honor and loyality to this country to prevent it,stop it and keep politicians in check.
The miltary takes orders from the president but the president must ultimately take orders from the people and Constitution.
I agree,respect and understand that.I respect those that join give up many rights that a civilian has.I admire the comradeship that those in the military form toward each other.
But understand that even a civilian puke like me has the thought of duty,honor loyality country and tradition and that weighs into how I criticzize politicians on how they use the military.
Because while you in uniform are ready to die and protect the Constitution (so am I) I as a civilian has the responsibility to make sure you are sent into harms way for those purposes and not a purpose that betrays or endangers the country and its tradition,honor and loyality of the Constitution.
So if I think the reasons to go to war or become involved in certain world matters may come back to haunt the country and dismantle the Constitution it's my duty,honor and loyality to this country to prevent it,stop it and keep politicians in check.
The miltary takes orders from the president but the president must ultimately take orders from the people and Constitution.
Great point of view. And I totally respect you for that. Yes, it is the military's job to follow the orders of the POTUS, but we as civilians need to keep POTUS on check.
Well I served and my son is already talking to recruiters.....Someones has to defend your right say whatever you want
The problem was...when I served...I couldn't say whatever I wanted. You do realize that as servicemembers we do NOT have the same rights as those we defend, right?
The UCMJ rules all. And who determines whether an order is legal or not? The same people who give the orders, which ultimately means our government. We have not had an action to DEFEND America itself, or its Constitution, in over 60 years.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Thanks for that.
Reminds me of that little weasel Ehren Watada. He needs to do time in the worst way.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
this is true.Like I said joining you become government property.There are mainy benefits to joining and it does build character for most.
But the oath appointed politicians take are ultimate oaths also.If they are to side track the Constitution and use the military for something not so much in national interests or in a manner not thought out regarding international interests the backlash can be harmful for the nation not to mention others also.
The military has done alot of policing over the years and in most instances the outcome has not been favorable or in some cases harmful to the long term interests of America.
The policy of pre emptive war against a nation that might attack us is a situation where leaders may use war in a corrupt or just not thought out manner.And while it may be the duty of military folk to go wherever without question it's certainly my duty to challenge the leaders who make these decisions,otherwise citizens are just sheep.
Afghanistan is just because AlQUADA has a stronghold there.No matter why they attacked us the manner in which they did warrents our retaliation and they have proved a threat.
But it is also wise that we consider how` we conduct ourselves around the world as to not make future enemies that may come back to bite us latter.
And there are other ways to conduct operations to bring change that we want by using operations and propaganda without resulting to using full out miltary operations that results in us being stuck there conducting nation building to a culture that will never submit or be able to conduct democracy.
Some cultures around the world are just too different than us and our system of freedom and government just won't work for them and most of the time it should be their fight to decide if that's right or not.
When we see genocide on TV its easy to emotional to think something must be done but alot of Americans don't even understand other cultures and get into the thought that democracy is great for everyone.Then we go there spreading democracy to a culture who doesn't want it and a long cultural history that we can't just fix in a few years.
Our way of life and freedoms are for us,it is not our responsibilty or duty to spread freedom to cultures that are just so different.Trying to do so has caused backlash in many places.Interestingly though our culture may bring change just by us living our lives and them wanting it,but when we interfere it may unravel those chances.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Sure do...unfortunately, the government itself is the biggest enemy of our Constitution. And they still are the ones giving us paychecks so we're going to obey them.
If the government told our military to fire on American citizens, do you seriously think that they would NOT do it?
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I was (and still am) only concerned about details that directly affect me personally.
If someone else makes a mistakes that is no reason for me to repeat it.
Another thing is that it took the army a very long time to acknowledge that there is such a thing as combat-stress, or that war is brutal for the human psyche. Many veterans did not get the psychological help they needed because it would be bad for the army to acknowledge that soldiers who have been in the field could become mentally damaged.
