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Old 09-20-2016, 07:45 AM
 
7,898 posts, read 7,075,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
We certainly need some kind of UBI in the near future. Humans are not robots, everyone has different skills and abilities. We're trying to force college (particularly STEM) on everyone when not all are capable of it. There needs to be jobs that fit different skill levels and abilities. I think less than 30% of America has a bachelors degree. And even many in that 30% struggle to find living wage employment already.

There are plenty of good jobs that do not require college. In my area auto mechanics and tradesmen are in short supply. Tradesmen can start their own businesses and retire wealthy. It takes plenty of hard work to make it as a skilled tradesman.


People with limited skills, little education and limited ambition and drive are the ones in trouble. They will be competing with the third world which has plenty of people willing to work hard for very little money.

Last edited by jrkliny; 09-20-2016 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:00 AM
 
496 posts, read 549,990 times
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Worse, they are already losing out to machines, a trend that will only increase.

As for the skilled trades, I don't know what a plumber makes, but the plumbing company we use charges $250 an hour. And a neighbor sold his self-made construction business for many millions of $, and he and his family now live like kings and queens. Not every trades person can be that successful, but it shows what a blue collar + a work ethic can accomplish. You can't outsource home repairs to the third world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post

People with limited skills, little education and limited ambition and drive are the ones in trouble. They will be competing with the third work which has plenty of people willing to work hard for very little money.
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:31 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,890,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
There are plenty of good jobs that do not require college. In my area auto mechanics and tradesmen are in short supply. Tradesmen can start their own businesses and retire wealthy. It takes plenty of hard work to make it as a skilled tradesman.


People with limited skills, little education and limited ambition and drive are the ones in trouble. They will be competing with the third world which has plenty of people willing to work hard for very little money.

Those people you mention are pretty much living on the dole. And the politicians want votes so they will happily provide more hand outs.
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:41 AM
 
7,898 posts, read 7,075,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
Those people you mention are pretty much living on the dole. And the politicians want votes so they will happily provide more hand outs.
There are tens of millions of working Americans who are not on the dole, not living on hand outs, but are facing financial difficulties. Many of the people who lost jobs in 2008-09 are now working but are in jobs that are not paying well. Others retired early. Others would be working but dropped out and are being supported by a spouse or relative. Most States have made it very difficult for people to get by on welfare on a permanent basis.
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:41 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,909,753 times
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I was prompted by my visit to Northern Virginia this weekend to post the article after reading it. One day we went from Northern Virginia to the National Zoo in Maryland. We drove through downtown DC on the way there and took another route on the way back. I commented to my son it was amazing all of the wealth in the area and we engaged in a discussion that it is a circle of highly skilled work force wanting to live there and and companies needing highly skilled workers. The growth over the last 30 years is phenomenal as those who lived there at one time can verify. The wealth is phenomenal and the lifestyle and education opportunities abound. Most of the disadvantaged areas discussed in the article can't compete for companies to locate there because those with the needed skills and talent don't want to live there. Even their talented young leave to set roots after college. Hard to have a booming Math/Stem career in many of these older areas. So even if you did have top k-12 school systems graduates would often go on to college and relocate elsewhere. Also as we know you if complain about teacher salaries/benefit don't expect to draw the best to your region and high skilled college graduates want top flight schools for their kids.
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:50 AM
 
7,898 posts, read 7,075,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
......high skilled college graduates want top flight schools for their kids.

You have definitely hit a nail on the head. Many areas are shriveling and dying because of poor schools. In other areas there is a housing boom because of demand often related to the quality of schools. Great colleges and universities are also in high demand. They can charge ridiculously high amounts and the demand does not lessen. People who understand the value of education don't want to settle for schools with watered down education.
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Old 09-20-2016, 08:58 AM
 
Location: NC Piedmont
4,023 posts, read 3,780,654 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourown2feet View Post
Worse, they are already losing out to machines, a trend that will only increase.

As for the skilled trades, I don't know what a plumber makes, but the plumbing company we use charges $250 an hour. And a neighbor sold his self-made construction business for many millions of $, and he and his family now live like kings and queens. Not every trades person can be that successful, but it shows what a blue collar + a work ethic can accomplish. You can't outsource home repairs to the third world.
A couple of things here...

It is a problem that when jobs are eliminated by tech, it's the people who already have money who reap the savings and the displaced worker is out in the cold. Automation and other increases in productivity will result in a situation where there are far more people than jobs.

With regard to hard work being rewarded, yes it does happen; there are plenty of anecdotes like yours that are true. But if you believe everyone with initiative and/or a strong work ethic can move up, the math just doesn't work. If you look at number of jobs and pay, the shape of the data is a triangle, not a rectangle.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know it isn't possible for it it to be resolved by more people gaining skills and moving up the chain. When workers are displaced by tech, there is probably only 1 or 2 new tech jobs created for every 10 jobs that are eliminated. Fast food franchises have several cashier, food prep and cleaning jobs but there is only one desk; they can't all move up.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,843 posts, read 30,905,811 times
Reputation: 47133
Essentially what you have today is an educational and skills arms race where a seemingly shrinking percentage of people and mostly a handful of mega cities are disproportionately prosperous

Where I lived in Indiana was one of the wealthiest counties in the country relative to COL. Almost everyone you met had a college degree, many had advanced degrees, most were intelligent, and many had good jobs in prestigious industries. These are the people who won that race.

Go thirty miles in any direction and you'll find inner city people in Indianapolis without work or hope - and a lot of social problems. Go into the rural areas and it's all Rust Belt - those counties' economies are bad. Those people lost the arms race.

I got a job offer in my hometown making about $60k in small TN with excellent benefits. That's a little more than the the median salary for men in the country, but in this town, median HHI is barely half of what I'm making. Many of my high school friends and peers did not get an education and are scraping by at whatever manual or factory work they can gobble together. Many have to settle for $10-$12/HR and i have two friends younger than me in their late 20s who are constantly complaining of back and leg problems from their jobs and they look like they're in their 40s or 50s.

Most of the people on this forum are urban (or made their money there), and are more educated and affluent than usual, especially compared to small town and rural residents.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:16 AM
 
10,599 posts, read 17,800,123 times
Reputation: 17349
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
I was prompted by my visit to Northern Virginia this weekend to post the article after reading it. One day we went from Northern Virginia to the National Zoo in Maryland. We drove through downtown DC on the way there and took another route on the way back. I commented to my son it was amazing all of the wealth in the area and we engaged in a discussion that it is a circle of highly skilled work force wanting to live there and and companies needing highly skilled workers. The growth over the last 30 years is phenomenal as those who lived there at one time can verify. The wealth is phenomenal and the lifestyle and education opportunities abound. Most of the disadvantaged areas discussed in the article can't compete for companies to locate there because those with the needed skills and talent don't want to live there. Even their talented young leave to set roots after college. Hard to have a booming Math/Stem career in many of these older areas. So even if you did have top k-12 school systems graduates would often go on to college and relocate elsewhere. Also as we know you if complain about teacher salaries/benefit don't expect to draw the best to your region and high skilled college graduates want top flight schools for their kids.
I can't believe you didn't realize it's only because government has become a behemoth. It's a fantasy land built on corruption and cronyism. the same reason college costs have been spiked so outrageously. Money laundering through the student. Country club colleges, fake grants and political Progressivism.
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Old 09-20-2016, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,748,412 times
Reputation: 21845
Re: 40 million rural plus others in poverty

According to Social Security, https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/quic...stat_snapshot/

There are now 65-million people living on Social Security only, SSI only or a combination of SS an SSI only.

Every election season, the politicians pander to these folks for votes ... and then ignore them for the next 4-years. Of course, it's difficult to wean people out of poverty in a system that trades votes to expand government-dependence, instead of encourage self-reliance.

(Yes, I know that anecdotally, we all know people on SS and SSI who are disabled or poor through no fault of their own ... but, that's the exception, rather than the rule).
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