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Theresa May can then pass the withdrawl and then stand down, the Tories can replace her with a better leader.
I would welcome a Customs Union, in order to leave, and as long as it was a temporary staging post and part of the process to gradually leave altogether.
This is now the sensible option imho.
The problem with a customs union is that it has nearly all of the same problems that made Theresa May's deal so odious and unpassable. Of course the House was not able to pass any of its "indicative votes," not even the customs union propopsal. Those votes were not even binding. If they put an actual customs union bill together and voted on that, with all of the details in it, it would fail by a significantly bigger margin. Also, if they put a time limit on it, the EU would not support it.
The problem with a customs union is that it has nearly all of the same problems that made Theresa May's deal so odious and unpassable. Of course the House was not able to pass any of its "indicative votes," not even the customs union propopsal. Those votes were not even binding. If they put an actual customs union bill together and voted on that, with all of the details in it, it would fail by a significantly bigger margin. Also, if they put a time limit on it, the EU would not support it.
Not a lasting cusoms union, a temporary customs union.
We can leave with some temporary meaures, and can later decide to leave the customs union.
This would be acceptable to the DUP and ERG, as well as most Tories.
The idea of a customs union is also popular with the opposition parties and would allow us to leave the EU and give us time in relation to a work on a future trading agreement.
17.4 million people had their votes overturned by a single MP who is a criminal wearing an electronic tag.
Brexit in a nutshell.
The polite revolution is coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Yes, this is the start, not the end. We know now the disdain politicians have for us. Some thought different, and believed at the heart of them, they wanted to do good.
They will have to face us at the ballot box eventually.
While I would not object to this being extended until as late as May 22 - which is as long as Theresa May has said she is willing to support - this latest vote, without a time limit in it, was pretty outrageous.
Nevertheless, the bigger issue now is the same as it was the day the referendum was held. Will the UK stay in the EU or will it leave? The key issue to watch is whether they will vote to participate in the May 23-26, 2019 EU Parliamentary elections. If they do, then you are staying. If they do not, then you are leaving. This is the issue that everyone should focus their attention on.
This is also a critical issue for the EU. Since the UK has already voted to leave and filed notice under Article 50 that they are leaving - now scheduled for a week from tomorrow - how can the UK continue on in union with the rest of the EU without participating in these elections? They say they insist on a reason for a further extension, but this is not truly necessary. But participation in the EU Parliamentary elections is.
Do you believe that your parliament will vote to participate in these elections? Keep in mind that the only thing they have affirmatively voted for this year were these extension requests. The one yesterday, as vague and undefined as it was only passed by one vote.
I do not believe they will do it. Of course some further or different treachery by them or the EU is certainly still possible, but based on every reasonable piece of information that we can see right now, it appears to me that you guys will be out by May 22 at the latest and very possibly by next week.
For you not to leave you MUST participate in the EU Parliamentary elections. Time is running out for that too.
While I would not object to this being extended until as late as May 22 - which is as long as Theresa May has said she is willing to support - this latest vote, without a time limit in it, was pretty outrageous.
Nevertheless, the bigger issue now is the same as it was the day the referendum was held. Will the UK stay in the EU or will it leave? The key issue to watch is whether they will vote to participate in the May 23-26, 2019 EU Parliamentary elections. If they do, then you are staying. If they do not, then you are leaving. This is the issue that everyone should focus their attention on.
This is also a critical issue for the EU. Since the UK has already voted to leave and filed notice under Article 50 that they are leaving - now scheduled for a week from tomorrow - how can the UK continue on in union with the rest of the EU without participating in these elections? They say they insist on a reason for a further extension, but this is not truly necessary. But participation in the EU Parliamentary elections is.
Do you believe that your parliament will vote to participate in these elections? Keep in mind that the only thing they have affirmatively voted for this year were these extension requests. The one yesterday, as vague and undefined as it was only passed by one vote.
I do not believe they will do it. Of course some further or different treachery by them or the EU is certainly still possible, but based on every reasonable piece of information that we can see right now, it appears to me that you guys will be out by May 22 at the latest and very possibly by next week.
For you not to leave you MUST participate in the EU Parliamentary elections. Time is running out for that too.
A temporary customs union would allow us to leave and still trade as normal, it would also buy us time to sort out our future trade and relationship with Europe, and would mean we could leave without a hard Brexit.
A temporary customs union would allow us to leave and still trade as normal, it would also buy us time to sort out our future trade and relationship with Europe, and would mean we could leave without a hard Brexit.
"Temporary" is another nail in the coffin of killing off BRexit all together. It's clear this mess was brought down on the UK by politicians who have no desire to get out. And of course the politicians in the EU who want to keep their UK vassal state, will do everything to help them.
This is why, after 2 years, there is absolutely no way out of this except to usurp the voters and then call it "temporary". They have now missed both dates for leaving, and have changed the rules again to move it further. It's not happening.
A temporary customs union would allow us to leave and still trade as normal, it would also buy us time to sort out our future trade and relationship with Europe, and would mean we could leave without a hard Brexit.
The problem is that the "temporary" part has to be left up to the EU to determine, or they will not agree to it. This is the core problem with the deal and has been all along.
"Temporary" is another nail in the coffin of killing off BRexit all together. It's clear this mess was brought down on the UK by politicians who have no desire to get out. And of course the politicians in the EU who want to keep their UK vassal state, will do everything to help them.
This is why, after 2 years, there is absolutely no way out of this except to usurp the voters and then call it "temporary". They have now missed both dates for leaving, and have changed the rules again to move it further. It's not happening.
We would have left the EU and would only be in a temporary customs union which would allow us to continue to negotiate in terms of trade and future relations.
The best way to destroy Brexit is to continue to not compromise instead of just leaving with a temorary customs union.
Such a deal would also allow May to finally stand down and for the Tories to select a new leader, which would most likely be a Brexiteer.
If we don't go for a temporary customs union, there is going to be legislation put in place to stop a hard Brexit by Parliament and ever increasung demands for a second vote.
We have a chance to leave under temporary customs arrangements, and if we don't take it then I don't believe Brexit will happen.
The problem is that the "temporary" part has to be left up to the EU to determine, or they will not agree to it. This is the core problem with the deal and has been all along.
The EU won't agree to let us stay as a member of the union, however being part of a Customs Union is different, indeed as already pointed out other non-EU countries such as Turkey have a customs union, and ours would only be temporary to allow both sides to continue talks in relation to the next stage which is trade and our future relationship with Europe.
We would have left the EU and would only be in a temporary customs union which would allow us to continue to negotiate in terms of trade and future relations.
The best way to destroy Brexit is to continue to not compromise instead of just leaving with a temorary customs union.
Such a deal would also allow May to finally stand down and for the Tories to select a new leader, which would most likely be a Brexiteer.
If we don't go for a temporary customs union, there is going to be legislation put in place to stop a hard Brexit by Parliament and ever increasung demands for a second vote.
We have a chance to leave under temporary customs arrangements, and if we don't take it then I don't believe Brexit will happen.
It's our one and only chance to leave.
Well, they have until next Tuesday to COMPLETE that process, if they are actually even going to start it. Which there are currently no actual plans in place to do.
As far as legislation to stop a hard Brexit, that means stopping Brexit, which means revoking Article 50. There is not support for that, not even close.
If they want to continue to support Brexit, then there are two ways to go. Either Brexit with a deal or Brexit without a deal. They have already rejected the only deal in existence, three times. So all that is left is to stop Brexit.
The other thing they could do, if the EU will go along, is vote to participate in the EU elections, with no reason for the delay and then just continue on like that indefinitely. That would not be legislating a formal stop to a hard Brexit, but it would have the same effect. That is why participation in the EU Parliamentary elections is THE issue to watch in the days to come.
If the UK Parliament votes to participate in the May 23-26, 2019 EU Parliamentary elections, then you are staying in the EU. If they fail to do that, then you are leaving. Do you believe your parliament will vote to participate in these elections? This may well be the only question that really needs to be answered at this point to determine how all of this is going to turn out.
The EU won't agree to let us stay as a member of the union, however being part of a Customs Union is different, indeed as already pointed out other non-EU countries such as Turkey have a customs union, and ours would only be temporary to allow both sides to continue talks in relation to the next stage which is trade and our future relationship with Europe.
If I am understanding you correctly, what you are proposing is something that would be negotiated AFTER the UK leaves the EU. Correct?
If so, the question of whether to Brexit or not to Brexit is not really affected by this question right now.
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