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Old 01-31-2019, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,996 posts, read 13,246,320 times
Reputation: 19208

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
So is there a plan that does not involve body bags?
Yes it's called no hard border and there isn't going to be a hard border in reality in any circumstances as the EU can't physically ebnforce one and everyone knows it.

Britain is not going to enforce a hard border, and we have made this clear, and Southern Ireland isn't going to enforce a hard border, and the Irish border, was never really an issue until the EU tried to make it one.

What we did say is that we would use technology to track as much goods as possible, just as we use technology and some paperwork to trade with most of the world.

The truth being most of the paperwork isn't even done at ports, it's done at the final destination, which is usually a factory or other outlet.

The UK deals with vast numbers of massive container ship from every conceivable part of the world on a daily basis, as well as planes and even international trains (even a direct train from China to London). The irish border shouldn't present any problem whatsoever and the EU are just using the issue to try and either extract more money from the UK or to try to push us in to a hard brexit situation in order to try and play politics.

Last edited by Brave New World; 01-31-2019 at 07:13 AM..

 
Old 01-31-2019, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,249,521 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yes it needs to be negotiated but what is their long term plan for the border with Ireland, no customs or tariffs. What does the UK want in a perfect world, an open border with Ireland.


I would expect trade outside the EU would ba unaffected as far as things like bananas but I assume the British consume other things.
The UK has had an open border with the Irish Republic since there has been an Irish Republic. Why would that change unless forced?
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:21 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,462,460 times
Reputation: 21096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
The UK has had an open border with the Irish Republic since there has been an Irish Republic. Why would that change unless forced?
That's not true in the context of the EU customs union. That is what the "hard border" is about. It's not about people walking across the border.

The backstop, "no border" means that Brussels has a say in what can be imported anywhere into the UK because potentially that item could end up in the EU. The UK does not want this for obvious reasons, the EU insists that it has to stay in there.

So for example if a company wanted to import wheat from the USA into England, that deal would be subject to EU scrutiny because said wheat could then be shipped through England into Northern Ireland and then into the the EU itself via Ireland.

Obviously this is unacceptable to BRexit supporters. Ending this devolvement of national sovereignty is what BRexit is all about.


(you can thank Macron for this)
 
Old 01-31-2019, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,249,521 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
That's not true in the context of the EU customs union. That is what the "hard border" is about. It's not about people walking across the border.

The backstop, "no border" means that Brussels has a say in what can be imported anywhere into the UK because potentially that item could end up in the EU. The UK does not want this for obvious reasons, the EU insists that it has to stay in there.

So for example if a company wanted to import wheat from the USA into England, that deal would be subject to EU scrutiny because said wheat could then be shipped through England into Northern Ireland and then into the the EU itself via Ireland.

Obviously this is unacceptable to BRexit supporters. Ending this devolvement of national sovereignty is what BRexit is all about.


(you can thank Macron for this)
I was asked what the UK wanted, that's what it's had forever, whether it wants it enough to remain in the customs union was not the question. Further control of your borders means just that, you can choose to enforce or not a border and customs at that border.

What you're presenting isn't even involving the UK Govt. They don't decide how the EU enforces border controls, so have no say in how Ireland will enforce or not their borders.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,996 posts, read 13,246,320 times
Reputation: 19208
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
That's not true in the context of the EU customs union. That is what the "hard border" is about. It's not about people walking across the border.

The backstop, "no border" means that Brussels has a say in what can be imported anywhere into the UK because potentially that item could end up in the EU. The UK does not want this for obvious reasons, the EU insists that it has to stay in there.

So for example if a company wanted to import wheat from the USA into England, that deal would be subject to EU scrutiny because said wheat could then be shipped through England into Northern Ireland and then into the the EU itself via Ireland.

Obviously this is unacceptable to BRexit supporters. Ending this devolvement of national sovereignty is what BRexit is all about.


(you can thank Macron for this)
Exports require documentation no matter where they come from and are subject to some scrutiny at EU ports and airports.

Whilst there is not going to be a hard border under any circumstances, and even WTO Rules state trade must be made frictionless.

The whole Irish border issue is just EU nonsense being used as an excuse to try and play politics rather than be constructive.

The EU's plan is for few checks, but so is Britain's plan, the issue is whether Northern Ireland should be part of the Customs Union, either way Northern Ireland will remain in the UK's free trade area and good can be easily esported across the Irish Sea.

There is no benefit to having NI in the EU Customs Union, as there's not going to be a hard physical border under any circumstances.

The real problem is actually the opposire direction with 80% of Southern Irelands goods coming through the UK and on to Europe.

Last edited by Brave New World; 01-31-2019 at 08:07 AM..
 
Old 01-31-2019, 07:53 AM
 
5,606 posts, read 3,491,430 times
Reputation: 7413
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
So, Roscoe, what do your circle of Irish friends and acquaintances propose as a solution to the border issue after Brexit?
Well,the heads of both the UK and Irish Revenue services say a border is completely unnecessary.
And the Irish prime minister Leo Varadkar - nicknamed Vacron here - is confident the UK,EU and Ireland could negotiate a way around one in the event of a no deal Brexit so if it's possible then it is entirely possible now.
Make no mistake Varadkar is doing this for his own political purposes back home - why else would he instruct Irish civil servants,immediately after the EU referendum,to have no discussions whatsoever with their UK counterparts over solving the border issue.
He's a political peacock rather like his chum Justin Trudeau but a diplomatic novice who has been played like a fool by the EU.
And Irish people - never the most independently-minded of folk after centuries of being told what to do by the British,the Catholic Church and now the EU - fall for his bluster like lemmings.
 
Old 01-31-2019, 08:21 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,462,460 times
Reputation: 21096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
...

What you're presenting isn't even involving the UK Govt. They don't decide how the EU enforces border controls, so have no say in how Ireland will enforce or not their borders.
It's not about Ireland. It's about Northern Ireland. You do realize it's part of the UK?

The EU wants it's customs union to extend to Northern Ireland, i.e. The Backstop. And because there is no border with the rest of the UK, that effectively places it over the entire UK. This is what the backstop argument is about. And obviously why the UK Parliament which includes the DUP has voted to reject it.

Backstop argument = who controls UK trade - Brussels or London.


(and BTW, the Irish government is not involved. They abdicated that right to Brussels)

Last edited by WaldoKitty; 01-31-2019 at 08:37 AM..
 
Old 01-31-2019, 08:36 AM
 
46,861 posts, read 25,814,930 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling View Post
Which European country supplies the EU with bananas and pineapples ?
The tomatoes I ate yesterday came from Israel as did the avocado.
I had a wonderful apple last week imported from South Africa.I don't like oranges but I could have had one from there too.
And everyone likes a steak too - you'd be surprised how much of it eaten in the UK comes from Africa and Brazil.
Playing dense to deliberately miss the point is a great look on you.
 
Old 01-31-2019, 08:39 AM
 
46,861 posts, read 25,814,930 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Britain is not going to enforce a hard border, and we have made this clear, and Southern Ireland isn't going to enforce a hard border, and the Irish border, was never really an issue until the EU tried to make it one.
Did you just say "Southern Ireland"?
 
Old 01-31-2019, 08:39 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,462,460 times
Reputation: 21096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Playing dense to deliberately miss the point is a great look on you.
Your point was to project Trump derangement onto this situation which you apparently know nothing about. That is why it fell apart in 2 seconds with that simple fact.
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