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Old 09-28-2016, 09:06 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
No, the income tax is highly progressive, meaning that a working poor pays less taxes than he/she would do in the US.
Actually, it's not. It's much flatter than the U.S. income tax.

And the point I made is that the middle class is in the top income tax bracket. And that's true in Finland:

Over 72,300 (Euro, equivalent to US $81,080.11): 31.75%

Average income in Finland: 40,560 Euro (US $45,485.61)

That's 1.8 times the average income.

https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp...uo/eng/i07.asp

Finland Average Monthly Earnings | 2000-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar


Here, in the U.S., one doesn't reach the top income tax bracket (39.6%) until one's income is $415, 050, which is 8 times the average household income of $51,939.

Quote:
The VAT doesn't automatically mean that prices are higher. For example Apple products cost the same in Finland as it does over there! As we are a small market, Apple sucks up the lesser profit margin by paying the VAT from its own pockets as to remain competitive.
That is simply not true. The price is the same, adjusted for the exchange rate, plus a 24% VAT is applied:
Quote:
Imports of the smartphone in Finland is free from duty, but sadly, not from sales tax. You will have to pay 24% extra because of sales tax.
iPhone 7 Price and Release Date In Finland

Quote:
Where you got that 1.5 time from is beyond me, but I can testify it's false.
I checked the latest Finland income tax bracket data and the average income in Finland, and it's currently 1.8 times. (Explained, above)
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,274 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Correct. The shareholders (the public) elect the Board of Directors, and it is the Board that oversees the running of the corporation. They hire/fire the CEO, for example.
Ok either you are entirely lost in your own fantasies of how this actually works and plays out, or you are just trying to start a war of name-calling. The Boards are, in the end, the insiders, chosen by the insiders, and they control the "election".

"MV (majority vote), as put into practice, is little more than “smoke and mirrors” since under most forms of MV standard currently put into practice the election outcome ultimately remains a board decision, protected by the business judgment rule."
https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2011...system-matter/

Nobody believes there is any threat of the public installing "their man" and taking over a corporation, except possibly you. And even that is in doubt.

Board members are recruited: Guidelines for Recruiting New Board Members

Knowing that they don't know how to run the company, most shareholders among the public and especially pension fund mangers sign their votes over to the Boards to vote the shares as the Board deems best. https://hbr.org/2012/07/what-good-are-shareholders

Say what you want. But don't expect me to keep replying to your claims and assertions.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,274 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
In fact, it is. Socialism subjugates the individual to benefit the collective society.
Only to the extent of denying any individual the "right" to establish, own, and run a business for personal, private profit. And you most likely have a big problem with that.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,274 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
America's lowest income earners are federally income taxed at 0%.
Well, since you oppose taxation, why don't you join those lowest income earners so you can benefit from zero taxation?
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:16 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Ok either you are entirely lost in your own fantasies of how this actually works and plays out, or you are just trying to start a war of name-calling. The Boards are, in the end, the insiders, chosen by the insiders, and they control the "election".

"MV (majority vote), as put into practice, is little more than “smoke and mirrors” since under most forms of MV standard currently put into practice the election outcome ultimately remains a board decision, protected by the business judgment rule."
https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2011...system-matter/
How does it ultimately remain "a board decision" when each shareholder gets to vote? I mail in my proxy ballots all the time, and some corporations now have an option to submit your ballot electronically. Results are later published.

Quote:
Board members are recruited: Guidelines for Recruiting New Board Members
Well, of course they are. Since they oversee how the company is run, they need to know what they're doing.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Only to the extent of denying any individual the "right" to establish, own, and run a business for personal, private profit. And you most likely have a big problem with that.
Unequal taxation is another way the individual is subjugated to benefit the collective society.

Some in the U.S. are paying over a 25% effective federal income tax rate for access to the exact same government services and benefits as those who pay a 0% effective federal income tax rate. And in many cases, those 0% federal income tax payers actually get MORE in federal government services and benefits than the 25% rate taxpayer.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:39 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Well, since you oppose taxation, why don't you join those lowest income earners so you can benefit from zero taxation?
I have.

Retired early, shuttered my business, and laid off all my employees. I choose to live a lifestyle that doesn't cost much, so I already have enough money. NO LONGER will I be a federal income tax slave for over 3 months of each year, while other income earners are not required to be federal income tax slaves at all.

That's the consequence of the "tax the rich" disincentive. I am FAR from alone is saying, "**** it!" and "going Galt" (going on financial strike).
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,274 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
In fact, it is. Socialism subjugates the individual to benefit the collective society.
Can you name a type of economy or society in which that is not true?


Quote:
Only when it's voluntary. When the subjugation is forced, it's socialism.
Can you name an economy or society in which subjugation is voluntary?

I'll take silence on this as a "no".
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,971 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kode View Post
Can you name a type of economy or society in which that is not true? I'll take silence on this question as a "no".
Local economies/societies. Flat sales tax rate. Flat property tax rate. Etc. Everyone contributes in direct proportion to the value of what they spend/own.

None of this "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" progressive tax crap that's straight out of Karl Marx's The Communist Manifesto.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,274 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
So you promote communism. That doesn't work either.
No, I don't promote communism. Communism failed, but, based on your post, I doubt very much that you know what is really meant by "communism".
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