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Same as a squirrel that leaps from tree to tree...after a few thousand years figures out that the leap would be easier and farther if they grew air foils or flaps of skin between their legs and glided...I mean that takes some thought...How did a flying squirrel figure that out? It took a very very long time. Just like the helicopter seed that fall from a tree...We figured out the air screw with Devince - it took a few hundred years to perfect what is now a helicopter or a propeller...(air screw)
It is simple to understand- the intergenerational thought of a tree might take ten thousand years to take place and ten seconds for us...but it is still a thought- and idea...the whole natural world is awake.
No. Evolution explains all of this. A gross misunderstanding of evolution is necessary to even entertain what you suggest.
A generator produces electricity. Does the electricity continue to exist after the generator stops?
You can recycle electricity. Look it up.
Here's another reason why: when a computer dies, many of its parts can be reused. When our physical body passes, many of our "parts" can be reused as well.
As gross as it sounds, even urine can be reused for something. Some people use it to heal a blister and in other cultures people use it to heal other various ailments. Yes even the nutrients in food won't completely go away after one defecates..how I know this is because rabbits will eat their "scat" when they are devoid of nutrients. Again very disgusting thing to think about but I had a rabbit that would do that.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
If we will aware that reincarnation is real and we re-born many times in different places and nations then we wouldn't see other nations as enemy. We would realize that all people on earth are our brothers and sisters. Hence, our political view would change from the warmongering and national egoism to the search of peaceful collaboration between all the nations. God knows, maybe you were chinese or russian in one of your past life but you consider them as your enemies today? That's ridiculous. Just think about it.
So, this thread is very relevant here.
I see. Sadly I'm not sure that is going to work because even without the possibility of reincarnation we are still "brothers and sisters". Most people are descended from immigrants but they still discriminate those who are different. I've even told someone that but there is no listening when one is set in their ways.
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
Same with man, deja vu...that feeling of being at a certain place before...?
I get deja vu A LOT and that is one reason why I think reincarnation is possible but it also confuses me because the first time I can explicity remember having it was for a celebrity I didn't care about. Why was this important for me to experience?
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
And what we CAN say is that 100% of that knowledge points one way, and 0% points the other way. EVERYTHING we know about human consciousness connects it to a working brain. NOTHING we know suggests any possible disconnect between the two.
Ah but what about the cases of the people who have received a heart transplant and have taken on the personality of their donor? Still I know that doesn't prove the existence of a soul but it does show that a brain is not the entirety of the person so it's possible to think that the person can still exist even after the lights are out.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
Sorry, if I disappoint you, but we understand a little about human consciousness.
You even don't realize how far we are from even the middle of this understanding.
For instance, we have no idea what is telekinesis and how it works. What is telepathy, clairvoyance, clairaudience, levitation etc. All of these phenomenas have a strong connection with human consciousness and its level of development. As I said in previous post, the spiritual human body has seven chakras which are centers of the spiritual consciousness. Our brain is just the lowest level link in the human consciousness chain. And as I said in this thread before, our brain dies and never will reincarnate. But our spiritual body with all our experience that was accumulated for ages will reincarnate in another, brand new physical body in accordance with all karmic conditions.
The only problem with that is most people are not psychic. Also not to play devil's advocate but this doesn't prove reincarnation. However it does very much support the existence of a soul.
There is a lot about this world we do not understand including the human body. I did not know much about chakras but looking it up I wonder if there is something to it. Evidence points that my solar plexus chakra is broke. Ever since my stomach has developed issues my self esteem has gotten worse. I have also had an instance where I have met someone and I immediately feel their energy. I feel as if I had known them all my life (of course I knew of them from things like pictures and videos however it became other worldly when I saw them in the flesh) This kind of feeling is far too complex to come from biological science so maybe it's a case of the heart chakra exploding out.
The only thing I am stumped about with this chakra concept is I bought this scent bottle that the woman said was supposed to help my stomach issues (she said it was right for this particular chakra) but it did nothing for me. Perhaps my chakra is that messed up though because I gave it to my mom who was having issues with dizziness and she immediately felt better like magic.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
I have noticed that. But I don't care what they say. We do have some objective knowledge and experience that is not from this world. But they don't. Hence, they won't understand those things.
Yes that is what it all comes down to. Of course as I say in my original reply here we shouldn't say it in a way that we are speaking for the universe but at the same time we can say it confidently and no one should discredit the possibility that yes there is life after. If you see with just your eyes, you end up partially blind but if you see with your heart/soul you will see clearly. I have found that enough things about me are other worldly and because people haven't experienced it they will give me funny looks or make insensitive comments (I can't tell you how many times I've been considered to be delusional over dramatic infatuated..you name it and I'm only an agnostic too so I'm not into organized religion by any means) while I can't say for certain that some of it does not come from my brain it does prove that science can't explain everything as if it is the brain it is a very special one at that that goes beyond simple chemistry and I of course have a low self esteem so I'm not saying this is an entirely good thing either. I find it very burdening personally in this world.
Last edited by Nickchick; 09-29-2016 at 08:01 PM..
Mind reading, telekinesis, all of those things have been tested time and time again and never stand up to any type of scientific, disinterested scrutiny. Why? Because those things aren't real.
The real scientists don't reject the possibility of these things. They say that our science is still very weak to prove and explain them. There are lots of things in the nature that the modern science even don't suspect of their existing. But it doesn't mean they aren't real.
For you, Jesus Christ walking on water, is a fantasy or a belief. For me, it is some natural phenomenon that is unknown to our scientific view today.
There is a lot about this world we do not understand including the human body. I did not know much about chakras but looking it up I wonder if there is something to it. Evidence points that my solar plexus chakra is broke. Ever since my stomach has developed issues my self esteem has gotten worse.
First of all, try to keep up your spirits and keep your chin up.
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Originally Posted by Nickchick
The only thing I am stumped about with this chakra concept is I bought this scent bottle that the woman said was supposed to help my stomach issues (she said it was right for this particular chakra) but it did nothing for me. Perhaps my chakra is that messed up though because I gave it to my mom who was having issues with dizziness and she immediately felt better like magic.
May I give you an advice? Try to drink purified water with baking soda. Just put half of small spoon of soda in a glass of water. Give it a stir, and drink. Yes, I know, it won't be a tasteful drink you wanted to drink, but it would help your stomach issues. Just try to do it 7 days in a row. It won't harm you at all in any way. But there is a good chance your stomach condition would improve. And of course, it's up to you.
Ah but what about the cases of the people who have received a heart transplant and have taken on the personality of their donor?
I am aware of no verified case of this at all outside a few handfuls of anecdote or testimony outside of controls. The first thing I would look at when evaluating it though is how much knowledge the patient had of the donor before the operation. I am a STRONG believer in the power of suggestion, and I would very much expect that any patient who had knowledge of their donor might at some level, even without their knowledge, move to take on some traits of the donor. Nor is such a thing unknown even outside transplants. There have been people who believed you take on the power or aura of people you eat. So they went around eating people, and sure enough self-suggestion often did lead them to take on some of the observed traits of their victims.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
You have missed one very important detail : they never tried, because they had a bad ear for music. They were tone-deaf.
It is hard to miss a detail that one did not actually offer. That said however one can be musically gifted without having an "ear" for it. In fact I doubt you would have to think for very long to come up with at least one famous person from the world of music who was not just tone deaf but ENTIRELY deaf.
However you have missed one very important detail : I did not limit my reply to just people who could have been musically gifted but simply never found out because they never explored it. What happened here is you quoted PART of my post and merely ignored the rest in order to make it look like I missed details that A) I did not miss and B) were never actually there.
Why you think such a move useful, or honest, is beyond me. But given the opportunity I would certainly find myself thanking you for not doing it again.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
Nobody from the family was musically gifted at all. But you made your conclusion based on your own supposition - "PERHAPS one of them was...".
Not what I did at all, you are strawmanning and distorting here. Further, there is a CHASM of difference between saying "This is the explanation" and "There are many possible explanations and here are a few examples of what they could look like". I did the latter. You are dishonestly pretending I did the former. Dont do that.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
I have noticed that. But I don't care what they say. We do have some objective knowledge and experience that is not from this world. But they don't. Hence, they won't understand those things.
Ah yes that "objective knowledge" that always seems to come in a form that precludes you from being able to present it. Convenient that. I am forced back to the analogy of that kid in school who claims for a long time to have a girlfriend, but also finds excuse after excuse to prevent people from ever meeting her. People realize slowly that this guy simply does not have the girlfriend he claims to have.
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Originally Posted by musiqum
The real scientists don't reject the possibility of these things.
Nor am I rejecting the possibility of them either. It is a common error, and one I would pre-advise you not to make, to mistake someone saying "I see absolutely no substantiation for X" as them saying "X is not possible".
I have NEVER said, and NEVER would say that the things people are talking about here are not possible. What I DO say is that the things people are saying here about reincarnation are unsubstantiated nonsense that is not only unsupported by any data we have now, but actively going AGAINST all the data we have now.
I think we can have this conversation like adults, without the flinging of school yard insults around the place, can't we? After all, insults demean only the insulter, NEVER the target. And you only let yourself down, and make yourself look bad, with this level of rhetoric and invective. I suspect you are better than this, please act like it so my suspicions are validated.
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Originally Posted by CALGUY
I believe the only way you will ever be convinced is for a real spirit to approach you and tell you the things written in the spirits' book are indeed truth.
I would not assume to know what will convince me of any proposition. That would not be open minded. If you say to yourself "Only X and Y will convince me" then you risk missing or ignoring Z when it comes along. So I remain open to any and all evidence that is put before me. I will consider and evaluate all evidence, equally, and will not reject it without cause or explanation.
But there are MANY ways I could be convinced something is going on here. For example many people on this thread have mentioned the scientific laws regarding conservation of energy. That is energy does not just disappear, it has to "GO" somewhere.
Great. The problem there is when we measure the energy going into our body, in our body, and coming out of our body..... it is all accounted for. To my knowledge the equations are balanced and nothing is missing.
IF new discoveries change that, and we suddenly realize "Hang on, at death a large chunk of energy is unaccounted for and we do not know where it goes" I would INSTANTLY...... I mean instantly.... sit up and take notice. This would be MASSIVE data in substantiating the idea that the human "soul" is some kind of energy and it "goes" somewhere after death.
That is just ONE example, there are 100s more, but suffice to say you are wrong..... a spirit popping in for a beer in my house is FAR from the only way I could be convinced that something is going on here beyond what the current data set suggests.
Rather, what I think is going on is that YOU recognize internally that YOU lack any substantiation for your claims...... but rather than admit that openly it is easier for you to simply invent biases, blocks, insults and narratives that you can direct at me instead. And that is not big. That is not clever. That is not wise. That is not useful. And most of all that is not honest or mature.
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Originally Posted by CALGUY
Just because you see no (what you term "real evidence") does not mean it doesn't exist.
Of course it does not. Why do you think I ask OTHER people to tell me what evidence THEY know of? I do so because I know evidence does not begin and end with me. Other people COULD have evidence that has been denied to me. So I query them on it. And people like cremebrulee aside most people are able to answer me without a hissy fit. Alas the answer so far as been a consistent "no"..... they are not privvy to any substantiation that I am not. They got nothing.
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Originally Posted by CALGUY
The fact that you do not want to accept the words of the spirits is not anyone's fault but your own.
The problem is that you have not established in ANY way that these are "the words of the spirits" so much as the words of the humans who wrote books for profit. From the Bible up to modern books on spirits and ghosts, there is no basis whatsoever to think any of this content has any origins other than the human minds who imagined it and wrote it.
There were two vivid separate fragments during 4 (or so) years. I mean there was a timing gap of 4 years between first and second picture of my memory. And the second picture (that spontaneous appeared after 4 years) was the continuation of the first picture. That is, it was one single event that was divided on two fragments with the time gap for 4 years. It's difficult to explain, but I hope you got me well.
No, I wasn't Napoleon or Einstein. LOL. But I have found out that I was one of the monk of
the Franciscans. I wore black dress, so I guess I was one of the Conventuals. From that second fragment I understood that I was killed in that day by the order of a nobleman. I even remember his face and his beret incrusted with diamonds. He yelled on me with indignation like a crazy. I even heard some giggles behind my back. It was members of his court suite. He gave me a good slap in my face and yelled : Now you know you shouldn't save those bastards!
First fragment was lasted a couple of seconds, but the picture was very rich, vivid and informative as well. I was guided by convoy of some monks who were dressed like me. We went on stoned trail between stoned walls. The monk who was from the left from me was like - I am so sorry brother, I really can't help you. He was very depressed he was forced to guide me too with this convoy. And you won't believe me - I felt his inner state!!! I felt his pain. I even wanted to tell him - that's ok, don't worry, I understand. But i raised up my head and noticed a castle in some distance on the hill. I knew we headed there. And at this moment the picture of my memory disappeared.
In this current life I was born in Uzbekistan in a jewish family. And since I moved to USA 18 years ago, I am an naturalized american.
As for who or what were in a past life, I think it is important to say that human soul will reincarnate in human body only. All that perverted modern induism and buddhism that claim the human soul can re-born as a tree, butterfly or as an animal is a huge BS. My spiritual guru laughs at it.
Edit : And one more important thing that I forgot to mention here is, before those visions happened, I didn't read a book or watched a movie about the Franciscans, and had no any interest to catholicism or the Capuchin history at all.
Wow, interesting, but must have been very difficult for you to watch, especially the ability to feel the monk's pain. Thank you for sharing this....this is like of astro-projection...isn't it?
My personal experiences, have led me to read several books on these happenings, including Edgar Casey...very interesting man...
I listened to a woman who had a near death experience, this was way back when my son was very young. It was a Radio show which I listened to every Sunday Morning, while fixing breakfast.
A woman died, and she was drawn towards a white light, she wanted to stay, but a voice told her she was unable to, that she still has much work to do here...and she was thrust back into her body...
She explained rising above her body in the hospital, seeing the doctors working on her, and then floating away...when she was forced back into her body, she said it felt like 1000 lions pulling her back quickly.
Every since, she has the ability to see things that she hadn't ever seen before, and she can in that way, help people.
Wow, interesting, but must have been very difficult for you to watch, especially the ability to feel the monk's pain. Thank you for sharing this....this is like of astro-projection...isn't it?
My personal experiences, have led me to read several books on these happenings, including Edgar Casey...very interesting man...
I listened to a woman who had a near death experience, this was way back when my son was very young. It was a Radio show which I listened to every Sunday Morning, while fixing breakfast.
A woman died, and she was drawn towards a white light, she wanted to stay, but a voice told her she was unable to, that she still has much work to do here...and she was thrust back into her body...
She explained rising above her body in the hospital, seeing the doctors working on her, and then floating away...when she was forced back into her body, she said it felt like 1000 lions pulling her back quickly.
Every since, she has the ability to see things that she hadn't ever seen before, and she can in that way, help people.
NDE is caused by chemicals released by the brain in anticipation of death and can be produced in healthy people by administration of those chemicals.
Wow, interesting, but must have been very difficult for you to watch, especially the ability to feel the monk's pain.
No, not at all. It was like you recollect an event from your childhood when you fell down from horse on ground and scratched your skin very badly. It was very painful then, at that moment. But now you just vividly see that picture in your memory and feel no pain or emotions from it.
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
My personal experiences, have led me to read several books on these happenings, including Edgar Casey...very interesting man...
I listened to a woman who had a near death experience, this was way back when my son was very young. It was a Radio show which I listened to every Sunday Morning, while fixing breakfast.
A woman died, and she was drawn towards a white light, she wanted to stay, but a voice told her she was unable to, that she still has much work to do here...and she was thrust back into her body...
She explained rising above her body in the hospital, seeing the doctors working on her, and then floating away...when she was forced back into her body, she said it felt like 1000 lions pulling her back quickly.
Every since, she has the ability to see things that she hadn't ever seen before, and she can in that way, help people.
I heard of Edgar Casey and his prophecy many times. He is one of them who had access to the so called spatial chronicles of the world. The Eastern philosophy calls it Akasha. ALL of the world events (even smallest) are stored there.
As for that woman who died and saw a bright light, there are books by Dr. Raymond Moody who collected thousands interesting stories during his work in hospitals in the resuscitation department. Different people of different race, religion, social status and education have seen almost the same thing.
Last edited by musiqum; 09-30-2016 at 10:25 PM..
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