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Old 10-14-2019, 06:44 AM
 
7,759 posts, read 3,849,990 times
Reputation: 8846

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Hypertension, diabetes, and renal failure are all chronic medical problems. Do you think their treatment provides "no immediate and necessary, very clear purpose"?

The people who have those conditions would beg to differ with you.
The first two, unless there's a genetic component medication only masks the symptoms but doesn't solve the underlying problem. Renal failure cannot be corrected generally but even that usually has genetic factors.

CRISPR and general Genetic correction research needs to proceed. Unfortunately there are too many hyper religious conservatives blocking it and prefer people to suffer leading miserable lives.

As the wisdom goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

 
Old 10-14-2019, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,005 posts, read 41,043,815 times
Reputation: 44944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
The first two, unless there's a genetic component medication only masks the symptoms but doesn't solve the underlying problem. Renal failure cannot be corrected generally but even that usually has genetic factors.

CRISPR and general Genetic correction research needs to proceed. Unfortunately there are too many hyper religious conservatives blocking it and prefer people to suffer leading miserable lives.

As the wisdom goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...
Since anecdotes seem to be the order of the day, here's mine. My blood pressure is well controlled on medication. I get it free at Publix Pharmacy. Would it be nice not to pop two pills a day, but as long as it is controlled I do not care if it is not cured. I do not think that a genetic treatment, if it were available, would be something I would try at my age.

In the US, diabetes and hypertension are the two leading causes of renal failure.

The poster I was replying to seems to reject any medical care except "trauma care". What she fails to understand is how much general medical knowledge and how many medications are used to treat trauma patients. It appears she thinks it is just setting broken bones and operating on people.
 
Old 10-14-2019, 10:02 AM
 
13,537 posts, read 4,849,330 times
Reputation: 9568
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
There is a HUGE difference between care for a trauma (example: car accident) and chronic disease management.

Trauma care is lifesaving and functional. It serves an immediate and necessary, very clear purpose.
I don't think its that different. Take diabetes, for example. This is a chronic disease that requires management. It may not have the immediate, life threatening urgency of a trauma, but if you don't treat it you could go blind or have your limbs amputated one by one. Is that not a "necessary, very clear purpose"?
 
Old 10-14-2019, 10:05 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,888,899 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
I don't think its that different. Take diabetes, for example. This is a chronic disease that requires management. It may not have the immediate, life threatening urgency of a trauma, but if you don't treat it you could go blind or have your limbs amputated one by one. Is that not a "necessary, very clear purpose"?
There is a very big difference in trauma care vs chronic care.

That's why there are ED physicians.
 
Old 10-14-2019, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,407,718 times
Reputation: 35920
Lots of different topics here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Not everyone. My uncle was told he needed surgery to save his life or he would be dead in 6 months. He got dressed, and walked out of the hospital. He died 8 months later at home. Uncle was 69.

A friend of ours recently was diagnosed with cancer. His wife found him in their bedroom with a bullet in his brain. He left a note saying he did not want to go through cancer treatment. He was 70.

A few months ago, I started feeling very dizzy and collapsed on my bathroom floor. All I wanted to do was sleep. My husband asked me if I wanted him to call 911. I have an Advanced Directive. Husband, and my children, know how I feel. I told him no just get me a pillow. Slept on the bathroom floor for 10 hours. Obviously, I'm still here. If that was how I going was to die, than so be it. I won't know what caused that because I do not go to doctors, and didn't for that. I am 71.

Do you really believe everyone is going to beg for help? You need to respect others choices even if they do not agree with yours, and that includes your own family members.
Want another anecdote? My husband was diagnosed with leukemia at age 70. His doctor gave him various options, including go home and die. He chose to be treated at a major medical center.

I feel sorry for your friend. Some people have heard such scare stories about cancer treatment that they think it will be terrible. I'll say this-it's not been a barrel of laughs, but DH seems to prefer to be here going through it than not. He lived to see his granddaughter be born. "May you live to see your children's children".

Quote:
Originally Posted by genesiss23 View Post
The original small pox vaccine (vaccinia) was developed in the 1790s. Variolation had been around for a while before in Europe and the Americas.
George Washington had small pox and probably became sterile because of it.
The actual evidence about antioxidants and cancer show they can increase the risk of certain cancers. This is a very famous study, the select trial. They stopped it early because of the risk.
I've heard that sterility story before but I don't believe it. I don't think that's a usual side effect of smallpox.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20353027

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
The first two, unless there's a genetic component medication only masks the symptoms but doesn't solve the underlying problem. Renal failure cannot be corrected generally but even that usually has genetic factors.

CRISPR and general Genetic correction research needs to proceed. Unfortunately there are too many hyper religious conservatives blocking it and prefer people to suffer leading miserable lives.

As the wisdom goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...
Ahh, the woomeisters with their "treat the underlying problem" shtick! Getting one's blood pressure down can reduce the problems of hypertension without "masking symptoms". Ditto for getting one's blood sugar down to normal levels. What does your woomeister recommend for these conditions?
 
Old 10-14-2019, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,957 posts, read 5,524,861 times
Reputation: 8559
My husband's doctor advises him to take multiple medications for his hypertension and high blood sugar, but has NEVER counseled him on changing his diet. I take over that role and his numbers change for the better, and then his doctor moves the goalposts and wants numbers lower than the original goals, and starts pushing the multiple meds again. You can't win. He is truly borderline with both conditions now, and still they push the meds. Keep narrowing that definition and you get to keep selling more meds. No-brainer to figure that one out.
 
Old 10-14-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,412 posts, read 34,578,908 times
Reputation: 73524
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkhmini View Post
My husband's doctor advises him to take multiple medications for his hypertension and high blood sugar, but has NEVER counseled him on changing his diet. I take over that role and his numbers change for the better, and then his doctor moves the goalposts and wants numbers lower than the original goals, and starts pushing the multiple meds again. You can't win. He is truly borderline with both conditions now, and still they push the meds. Keep narrowing that definition and you get to keep selling more meds. No-brainer to figure that one out.


Why don't you change doctors? (BTW: the doctor didn't change the numbers, the recommended numbers were generally changed, so everyone was told that).
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,407,718 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkhmini View Post
My husband's doctor advises him to take multiple medications for his hypertension and high blood sugar, but has NEVER counseled him on changing his diet. I take over that role and his numbers change for the better, and then his doctor moves the goalposts and wants numbers lower than the original goals, and starts pushing the multiple meds again. You can't win. He is truly borderline with both conditions now, and still they push the meds. Keep narrowing that definition and you get to keep selling more meds. No-brainer to figure that one out.
Do you go with him on his visits, or are you just repeating what he tells you. Surely you know that the doctor isn't making any money on the meds?
 
Old 10-14-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,957 posts, read 5,524,861 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Why don't you change doctors? (BTW: the doctor didn't change the numbers, the recommended numbers were generally changed, so everyone was told that).

It's the only doctor at the VA clinic in our small town, so no. Of course it's not her, personally, changing the numbers. Do you think I'm an idiot?
 
Old 10-14-2019, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
20,957 posts, read 5,524,861 times
Reputation: 8559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Do you go with him on his visits, or are you just repeating what he tells you. Surely you know that the doctor isn't making any money on the meds?

I go with him to every visit.



Surely, no. I know nothing of the kind.


I do know, however, that an MD with whom I'm acquainted had her license taken away expressly because she did not prescribe enough medications, and chose to counsel patients instead in the ways they could take charge of their own health, diet being one of those mechanisms.

Last edited by vkhmini; 10-14-2019 at 11:41 AM..
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