Anti-Gun Lefties: Amazingly ignorant yet such strong opinions? (statistics, crime rate, tasers)

[lifeexplorer]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

I am not paranoid about dying it's pretty much a fact no? So life insurance makes sense. Even if I had a gun the chances of a using it are remote and a positive outcome is well beyond remote. I know one person that had was robbed at gun point once and had a gun pulled on him again in a traffic dispute, that's my anecdotal experience in over 60 years.


NYPD has 35,000 uniformed officers and they have roughly 30+ instances where they discharge their firearm each year. Something like 95% of NYPD never use their firearm. I would say the odds of a civilian using a firearm are in the millions, maybe more.

Please read my post carefully.

Each violent encounter is an opportunity to use guns for self-defense. In reality, you have 1 in 300 chances, not in the millions. On the other hand, most violent encounters are resolved without shots being fired. The mere showing of the gun is enough to deter the bad guys. Please ask the police officers how many times they have to show their weapons. It would not be 30 times a year. The 1 in 300 is actually the low number. In reality, it is much higher as many violent crimes are stopped by the would-be victims showing their guns. Since no crimes were committed, often no reports were filed.

Your anecdotal experience isn't right because there are things we can do to avoid crimes just like there are things we can do to avoid death; however, in the grand scheme of things, we still have at least 1 in 300 chances to use a firearm in self-defense but only 1 in 1000 or 500 chance of drop dead this year.

[lifeexplorer]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

There are many businesses that do not want their employees to get involved with armed robberies, it may turn out well for you but it's a high risk. Employees have been fired for intervening.

Businesses exist to make money not to protect their employees.

[FatBob96]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

There are many businesses that do not want their employees to get involved with armed robberies, it may turn out well for you but it's a high risk. Employees have been fired for intervening.

My wife was written up for flagging down police while shoplifters were coming out of the store she works at with thousands of dollars in merchandise!

It is an upside down world we live in!

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by rbohm

you. might want to read this;

I have read the federalist papers which states what a well regulated militia is, and talks about the people of each state appointing officers to maintain the weapons during peace time, and to make sure this nation doesnt have a standing army during peace time.

THE power of regulating the militia, and of commanding its services in times of insurrection and invasion are natural incidents to the duties of superintending the common defense, and of watching over the internal peace of the Confederacy.

It requires no skill in the science of war to discern that uniformity in the organization and discipline of the militia would be attended with the most beneficial effects, whenever they were called into service for the public defense. It would enable them to discharge the duties of the camp and of the field with mutual intelligence and concert an advantage of peculiar moment in the operations of an army; and it would fit them much sooner to acquire the degree of proficiency in military functions which would be essential to their usefulness. This desirable uniformity can only be accomplished by confiding the regulation of the militia to the direction of the national authority. It is, therefore, with the most evident propriety, that the plan of the convention proposes to empower the Union "to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, RESERVING TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY THE APPOINTMENT OF THE OFFICERS, AND THE AUTHORITY OF TRAINING THE MILITIA ACCORDING TO THE DISCIPLINE PRESCRIBED BY CONGRESS.''

Of the different grounds which have been taken in opposition to the plan of the convention, there is none that was so little to have been expected, or is so untenable in itself, as the one from which this particular provision has been attacked. If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security. If standing armies are dangerous to liberty, an efficacious power over the militia, in the body to whose care the protection of the State is committed, ought, as far as possible, to take away the inducement and the pretext to such unfriendly institutions. If the federal government can command the aid of the militia in those emergencies which call for the military arm in support of the civil magistrate, it can the better dispense with the employment of a different kind of force. If it cannot avail itself of the former, it will be obliged to recur to the latter. To render an army unnecessary, will be a more certain method of preventing its existence than a thousand prohibitions upon paper

Your site tried to define what a well regulated militia was based on the context of a 3rd party who has nothing to do with this discussion,

where as I defined it based on document create to persuade congress to have a Constitution in the first place.

the above document was written by 3 men, specifically credited tot he first I will mention

Alexander Hamilton - Signatory of the Constitution(delegate from NY), 1st Secretary of the Treasury, Commander of the Army
James Madison - Signatory of the Constitution("Father of the Bill of Rights") 4th President of the United States, 5th Secretary of State, House of Reps member.

John Jay - 1st Secretary of State, 1st Chief Justice, Governor of New York, President of Congress, delegate to congress.

but yes your list of random quotes

The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen
The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."


1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

is what a well regulated militia is, LOL

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

I have read the federalist papers which states what a well regulated militia is, and talks about the people of each state appointing officers to maintain the weapons during peace time, and to make sure this nation doesnt have a standing army during peace time.



Your site tried to define what a well regulated militia was based on the context of a 3rd party who has nothing to do with this discussion,

where as I defined it based on document create to persuade congress to have a Constitution in the first place.

the above document was written by 3 men, specifically credited tot he first I will mention

Alexander Hamilton - Signatory of the Constitution(delegate from NY), 1st Secretary of the Treasury, Commander of the Army
James Madison - Signatory of the Constitution("Father of the Bill of Rights") 4th President of the United States, 5th Secretary of State, House of Reps member.

John Jay - 1st Secretary of State, 1st Chief Justice, Governor of New York, President of Congress, delegate to congress.

but yes your list of random quotes



is what a well regulated militia is, LOL

and still you forget the second part of the amendment, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. the scotus has ruled that the term "people" refers to the average citizen. back in the day the militia was active duty state military units that consisted of citizens of legal age, and with the ability to use a firearm. and the founders wanted such a military, but they also wanted the people to keep and bear arms in their own homes, not at some depository down the road somewhere. they wanted the people to be ready to defend their state and country at a moments notice, and you cant do that if you have to travel just to get your firearm.

[Goodnight]

Originally Posted by lifeexplorer

Please read my post carefully.

Each violent encounter is an opportunity to use guns for self-defense. In reality, you have 1 in 300 chances, not in the millions. On the other hand, most violent encounters are resolved without shots being fired. The mere showing of the gun is enough to deter the bad guys. Please ask the police officers how many times they have to show their weapons. It would not be 30 times a year. The 1 in 300 is actually the low number. In reality, it is much higher as many violent crimes are stopped by the would-be victims showing their guns. Since no crimes were committed, often no reports were filed.

Your anecdotal experience isn't right because there are things we can do to avoid crimes just like there are things we can do to avoid death; however, in the grand scheme of things, we still have at least 1 in 300 chances to use a firearm in self-defense but only 1 in 1000 or 500 chance of drop dead this year.

I don't know where you come up with 1 in 300 when close to 30,000 NYP never use their gun. There are no FBI stats on showing a gun, they do not exist. Yes there are things that you can do to avoid death, not smoking would be the first choice not carrying a gun fo rprotection

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by rbohm

and still you forget the second part of the amendment, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. the scotus has ruled that the term "people" refers to the average citizen. back in the day the militia was active duty state military units that consisted of citizens of legal age, and with the ability to use a firearm. and the founders wanted such a military, but they also wanted the people to keep and bear arms in their own homes, not at some depository down the road somewhere. they wanted the people to be ready to defend their state and country at a moments notice, and you cant do that if you have to travel just to get your firearm.

Let me put this as simple as possible.


the 3 men I named wrote the Constitution in 1787(passed congress and went to the states on September 17th, 1787)

The 29th Federalist paper was published on January 9, 1788

It was written to promote ratification by the states, Hamilton was specifically clarifying what the militia meant in context.

if you personally believe every lawful citizen should be allowed to have a gun, thats fine. I dont even disagree with you, But the founding fathers clearly did.

Hamilton clearly states that the militia would be in charge of the weapons and that they would indeed be in some depository, LOL

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

Let me put this as simple as possible.


the 3 men I named wrote the Constitution in 1787(passed congress and went to the states on September 17th, 1787)

The 29th Federalist paper was published on January 9, 1788

It was written to promote ratification by the states, Hamilton was specifically clarifying what the militia meant in context.

if you personally believe every lawful citizen should be allowed to have a gun, thats fine. I dont even disagree with you, But the founding fathers clearly did.

Hamilton clearly states that the militia would be in charge of the weapons and that they would indeed be in some depository, LOL

a well regulated militia being necessary to the rptection of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

the right to bear arms does not mean it gets stored in some central repository. it means that the average citizen gets to store firearms IN THEIR OWN HOME. and it also means that right shall not be infringed.

hamilton and the other founding fathers meant what they wrote. for both parts of the second amendment.

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by rbohm

a well regulated militia being necessary to the rptection of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

the right to bear arms does not mean it gets stored in some central repository. it means that the average citizen gets to store firearms IN THEIR OWN HOME. and it also means that right shall not be infringed.

hamilton and the other founding fathers meant what they wrote. for both parts of the second amendment.

DO you not understand that the federalist papers and the Constitution were written by the same person/people, and when asked by the public to explain in detail what they meant and why they should support the Constitution, those men wrote a plain spoken explanation known as the Federalist Papers ?????

Im seriously not understanding how you dont get this.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by dsjj251

DO you not understand that the federalist papers and the Constitution were written by the same person/people, and when asked by the public to explain in detail what they meant and why they should support the Constitution, those men wrote a plain spoken explanation known as the Federalist Papers ?????

Im seriously not understanding how you dont get this.

the constitution is the basis for our government and laws, the federalist papers are not. once again i remind you that the supreme court has ruled that the average law abiding citizen has the right to keep and bear arms, that when the founders wrote the term "the people" that they were in fact referring to the average citizen.