Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-23-2008, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,192,308 times
Reputation: 11416

Advertisements

Numerous posts talk about the world hating the US because of special freedoms that no one else apparently possesses.

My question is what are these special and magical freedoms?

Last edited by chielgirl; 02-23-2008 at 06:18 PM..

 
Old 02-23-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: California
412 posts, read 1,747,180 times
Reputation: 197
It is probably just the fact that we are the/a world superpower. That is pretty much it becaues I really believe that countries like France, Norway, and Iceland probably have more freedoms than America.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,884 posts, read 20,328,040 times
Reputation: 5175
Oh, I dunno, chielgirl. A visit to a few third world countries would give some valuable insight as to what we have here.

BTW, I've never heard them referred to as "magical". Could you elaborate?

Jaipur, you say France, Norway and Iceland have more freedoms. On what are you basing that statement? It just about made me spit my coffee out.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,192,308 times
Reputation: 11416
I live in an Asian country, I've lived in other Asian countries and I'm quite closely tied to another; I've lived in the EU and I've lived in the US. I don't see what magical freedoms the US possesses that other countries don't also possess.

Magical was just hyperbole for the special freedoms that some people seem to think the US possesses. I've posed the question several times when people have mentioned that people hate the US for their freedoms, or that the US has freedoms that no one else seems to possess.

In my pretty extensive experiences traveling and living abroad, I disagree that the US has any level of freedom over every other country in the world.

I'm seriously interested in what special freedoms people seem to think that only the US possesses.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,494,168 times
Reputation: 9675
The U. S. isn't hated for its freedoms but rather for it's foreign policy that exploits other countries. It's been going on for well over a century. For instance, Senator Orvill Platt of Connecticut said in 1894, "I firmly believe that when any territory outside the present territorial limits of the United States becomes necessary for our defense or essential for our commercial development we ought to lose no time in acquiring it." And so only a few years later the U. S. invaded the Philippines with many thousands of Filipinos slaughtered.

And that was just the beginning. Between 1898 and 1934 the Marines invaded Cuba 4 times, Nicaragua 5 times, Honduras 7 times, the Dominican Republic 4 times, Haiti twice, Guatemala once, Panama twice, Mexico 3 times and Colombia 4 times. And of course, later it was Korea and Vietnam to name just two. Today, our country has troops in many countries around the world that aren't going home.

Also the U.S. gives aid to third world countries with savage dictators, but much of that aid merely ends up in the hands of those dictators and their friends and relatives. Of those people greatly oppressed under such dictators it is little wonder they would hate us.

And when bin Laden stated why he attacked America on 9/11, it wasn't because of its freedoms he resented. Instead, he said, "What America is tasting is now something insignificant compared to what we have tasted for scores of years. Our nation, the Islamic world has been tasting this humiliation and degradation for more than 80 years. Its sons are killed, its blood is shed, its sanctuaries are attacked and no one hears and no one heeds. Millions of innocent children are being killed as I speak. They are being killed in Iraq without committing any sins..."

I certainly don't condone terrorist actions but we won't come close to understanding them if we think they hate us simply because of our freedoms as President Bush and others would want you to believe.

Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 02-23-2008 at 08:02 PM..
 
Old 02-23-2008, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,192,308 times
Reputation: 11416
Stillwater, I absolutely agree, and then some.

Numerous posts on this board talk of our freedoms that people want and that no one else has. I think it's bunk and no one whom I have addressed will answer me about these freedoms that Americans alone have.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 08:32 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,511,746 times
Reputation: 3019
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Stillwater, I absolutely agree, and then some.

Numerous posts on this board talk of our freedoms that people want and that no one else has. I think it's bunk and no one whom I have addressed will answer me about these freedoms that Americans alone have.
I never heard anyone say anything about freedoms "only America has"....but I definitely think it's a rather rare and special place. It's an 'experiment', the results aren't 'in' yet, and its success isn't guaranteed. It was the first nation on earth 'tailored' with the specific written goal of admitting "everyone", poverty and destitution and 'misery' having no 'disqualification'. In theory, it specified no required religion, race or ethnicity.

Though we're still trying to "implement" these ideals, and many people are eager to point out how we've fallen short, the fact is, MOST nations on earth never even TRIED anything like this. We're among the few nations on earth that profess any interest at ALL in being 'multicultural". Whether that "bold" idea will ever work, I don't know...but we're determined to try, at least. Maybe it will work here better tan it did in Yugoslavia, or South Africa, or the Soviet Union...and maybe not. But MOST countries won't even try. Some make a 'token effort', like Singapore, but only under a strict and draconian social order.(and in a MUCH smaller area).

France, Norway, and Iceland probably DO have more freedoms than we do. They ALSO have a lot less diversity...(and I hear 'dark stories' coming out of those places that even their LOW degree of diversity isn't working out too well). None of these places allow millions of illegal immigrants to move in, and then belligerently demand the rights of citizenship, WITHOUT being deported.
Many places have no problems with minorities, because, for all practical purposes, they HAVE none. How many large groups of racial minorities LIVE in Iceland, or Norway, or South Korea, or even Japan? And how are the ones THERE being treated? Last year we heard of how France is getting along with ITS minorities. Great Britain is apparently 'trying', but apparently has curtailed many of its traditional liberties in the effort not to "annoy" or 'alienate" any of its diverse immigrant groups. I guess it doesn't work unless it's forced by law.

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Libya, and Pakistan probably have fewer assaults on women than we do...partly due to the fact that crimes against women are ignored...or women simply aren't allowed "out" as much as they are "allowed out" here. Mexico has few problems with illegal immigrants...it just 'shakes thenm down" and deports them, and 'voila'...no problem...

Russia and China and Cuba have lose FAR less time each year, and spend FAR less police 'overtime", in controlling street demonstrations than WE do...they just "shoot" the protesters, and 'boom'--traffic's back to normal in NO time...no messy 'squabbling", no trying to 'listen' to pesky agitators, like we do here.

Take ANY hypothetical nation you care to use, populate it with 300 million people, require virtually NOTHING of them, not even CITIZENSHIP, and I'll bet you even money that the US will out-perform YOUR country.

If you can't "come up" with a good example, maybe THAT tells you why the US 'falls short" in comparison..maybe because there really IS none.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 08:39 PM
 
Location: America
6,993 posts, read 17,308,415 times
Reputation: 2093
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
The U. S. isn't hated for its freedoms but rather for it's foreign policy that exploits other countries. It's been going on for well over a century. For instance, Senator Orvill Platt of Connecticut said in 1894, "I firmly believe that when any territory outside the present territorial limits of the United States becomes necessary for our defense or essential for our commercial development we ought to lose no time in acquiring it." And so only a few years later the U. S. invaded the Philippines with many thousands of Filipinos slaughtered.

And that was just the beginning. Between 1898 and 1934 the Marines invaded Cuba 4 times, Nicaragua 5 times, Honduras 7 times, the Dominican Republic 4 times, Haiti twice, Guatemala once, Panama twice, Mexico 3 times and Colombia 4 times. And of course, later it was Korea and Vietnam to name just two. Today, our country has troops in many countries around the world that aren't going home.

Also the U.S. gives aid to third world countries with savage dictators, but much of that aid merely ends up in the hands of those dictators and their friends and relatives. Of those people greatly oppressed under such dictators it is little wonder they would hate us.

And when bin Laden stated why he attacked America on 9/11, it wasn't because of its freedoms he resented. Instead, he said, "What America is tasting is now something insignificant compared to what we have tasted for scores of years. Our nation, the Islamic world has been tasting this humiliation and degradation for more than 80 years. Its sons are killed, its blood is shed, its sanctuaries are attacked and no one hears and no one heeds. Millions of innocent children are being killed as I speak. They are being killed in Iraq without committing any sins..."

I certainly don't condone terrorist actions but we won't come close to understanding them if we think they hate us simply because of our freedoms as President Bush and others would want you to believe.
this was down right un american. Bush warned us about this sort of talk.

[/sarcasm]
 
Old 02-23-2008, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,494 posts, read 7,458,642 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I never heard anyone say anything about freedoms "only America has"....but I definitely think it's a rather rare and special place. It's an 'experiment', the results aren't 'in' yet, and its success isn't guaranteed. It was the first nation on earth 'tailored' with the specific written goal of admitting "everyone", poverty and destitution and 'misery' having no 'disqualification'. In theory, it specified no required religion, race or ethnicity.
It is believed the Founding Fathers were heavily influenced by a few upstate New York tribes, which ultimately led to the conclusion of the Constitution. (1491 by Charles C. Mann)

In short, the Indians knew how to govern their people way better than the rest of the world.
 
Old 02-23-2008, 08:54 PM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,596,990 times
Reputation: 3869
I think the picture is mixed. On one hand, the US has quite strong protections on things like freedom of speech and free expression. Only a handful of European countries protect the range of expression that the US protects. In the US, you can legally espouse your neo-Nazi beliefs while burning the flag and watching violent pornographic material. This is all protected free expression, whereas you can be fined in France for booing during a performance of La Marseillaise, the national anthem of that country.

On the other hand, the US tends to have a much more aggressive and violent police force than other developed western nations. Things like botched SWAT team drug raids where pets and people get shot "by mistake" would probably lead to the resignation of the public safety minister in many countries, while in the US, we just sort of accept it as a fact of life.

There is a sense that the US is much more of a police state in terms of the ability of the cops, border guards, etc. to arbitrarily arrest you, abuse you, etc. There have been incidents of out-of-state drivers being arrested in states like Georgia after being unable to pay traffic tickets on the spot with credit cards or cash, due to fears that they'd simply skip payment otherwise. The feeling is that the authorities can abuse you more in the US, and that people in the US are less-apt to complain about it.

It's a mixed portrait.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top